osix

What fuel injector volume you using .
Mine assuming is D16y8 auto top
With 250cc injector .

Is running dry and feel a littke lack of push .

Jimster480

250cc is enough for any mini-me setup.

You can always make your FPR into an adjustable one and increase your fuel pressure a few PSI to compensate.

osix

I am considerign getting a FPR how much PSi would i be looking for - in term of Adjustment. is there a number to follow .

-
the B7 is mark with " PM3B " right ? What engine would have this Camgear so i can find it . at the Junkyard .

-
Will B8 / Z6 be the same and any photo or code marking i can look for . Is real hard as Many workshop and Junkyard here don't know anything about Min me Mod.

2. Will i set Gear timing same 3 o'clock and 9'oclock Mark ?

3. Will the Honda City Timing Belt i been using work ?

This is Exciting .
You said your was 400 HP

what Ecu you running ? and how is MPG

osix

This will sound silly.

the B7 / B8 / Z6 Cam which is suggested here.

Does it Mean ..

This is the Cam gear i should be using for my Mini Me right
Instead of the Y8 ( auto ) Standard

D15B7
D15B8
D15Z6

Cam gear ?

Rushing to the Junk Yard tomrorow

Jimster480

Yep you can use a b7 cam gear to offset the timing.

TomCat39

Sorry, I was clumping the motors together, B7, B8, B2, as B7/8/2. All three motors are the same specifications on the block including rods and pistons.

D15B7, D15B8, D15B2 in short B7/8/2.

As for cam gear, it should be a B7, B8 or a Z6 cam gear and maybe even the Z1.

D15B7, D15B8, D16Z6 or D15Z1. That is the 4 motors in the US Domestic Market for the 92-95 civics.

osix

i believe i would have a higher change to find the D15B7 / 8 Camgear .

Just to get the data correct .

- When i get B7/8 Camgear .

1. is Plug and Play
2. Set up base on 9 o'clock - 3 o ' clock mark .
3. Use my Honda city Timing belt .
4. No need advance or retard it right .
5. after that use a timing to set it to Red mark ?

---Thailand
i am Running 91 Octane Gasohol .
is it close to 89 Octane

Additional Data .
D16y8 Cam from Auto civic
i saw another civic that look very much like mine and is a
Civic EX

The last owner gave me the workshop that mess then setup
i called in and he said

D16y8 ( auto )
Ecu
P6X-T51 ( auto )
IACV ( blocked with a Sand paper )
Fuel/ Air screw ( Block )
O2 Sensor Remove
Cluster panel ( MT -Carburetor )


i should be going to the Junkyard to hunt it down in 8 hour time .

" PM3B "

Jimster480

Yes it should be plug and play.

About the honda city timing belt.... I have no clue about that belt as we don't have them in the USA.

TomCat39

If you can find a fuel injector gauge cluster, it will give you the CEL. I think because the cluster is carb it doesn't have the CEL stock.

osix

Found this cam gear . can anyone verify . it mark with PM3B & 362

osix

Just installed the Camgear.
i did not match it 100% to the 9 oclock and 3 oclock , but the Up is in the Center . pointing .

1. The car is very powerful now . i can feel the Boost and power maybe from better compression .
2. will need to find place to set timing.

MY timing Belt is 103 Tooth . -
I saw someone saying i need 104 ?
i wonder if it would be any different .

I have not test the MPG .. anyone have some data to compare for D16y8 / B7 Cam gear . MPG

osix

Here some Update - and need some verify

ECU - P6x-T51 ( Auto - Amazing car is running )

5 days ago
Installed 1 Wire O2.
Result : Mpg Improved Calculated 27 MPG
Con : No Power - 3rd , 4th 5th gear feel dry and powerless .
( D16y8 CAMEAGR )

-------------
Today .
Installed PM3B Camgear ( Marked 362 )
not sure if it TDC but did a Screw driver Trick & Place The CAMGEAR as shown on photo .
-

Result -
Car Feel powerful .
Gear 1 and 2 Rev go up very fast . ( guessing it Compression is working )
MPG will time over the Next 2 Day .
Timing is not Adjusted with Flash Gun

--------------
Question and Doubt .
Current Spec -
1. Timing belt Tooth is 103
2. Camshaft - D16Y8
3. CamGear - D7/D8/Z6 ( PM3B - 362 )
4. ECU - P6x-T51 ( Auto )
5. Spark Plug - NGK G-power
6. D15 Block but weirdly ( refer to photo below - Note there is a Number 14 - i wonder if there is a D14


7. Since the Block was a carburetor
( there were no ECU or CEL on Cluster panel )

----------------------------------------------
8. MPG before B7/8/Z6 Camgear Change 27MPG

osix

Today i went to set Timing , and i was told i am OFF by about 5 degree some where in the 20 degree range ? or he said i am off by 1 tooth .

So do i turn the Camgear back Anti clock wise by 1 tooth ? and that it ?


Today i went to set Timing , and i was told i am OFF by about 5 degree some where in the 20 degree range ? or he said i am off by 1 tooth .

also the MPG now drop from 27 MPg to 23 MPG now

osix

Here is some Spec and Info .

Engine Block - As shown . ( possible D15b )
94 Civic EX carburetor

Fuel Injection
D16y8 Vtec Top

Timing Belt ( 103 tooth - Honda City )
Cam Gear PM3B suggested by Other Mini Me post .

I can't seem to get my TDC .

i installed as shown on Photo .
Went for Timing Light check and was told i am Around 20 Degree*
but he said i was 1 tooth off ? ( but one tooth is almost 9.5 degree )

whch would mean i am down to 10.5 Degree if i move one Tooth .

At the Moment the Ignition Adjustment is retarded to the MAX .
and i am still 20degree .

----
what i plan to do is .
Move the Camgear ( still thinkng which direction to turn ) Anti Clockwise
by half tooth ( or should i go 1 Tooth )

OR

should i Change the Timing Belt to 104 tooth ( i read some where i should use 104 Tooth but some said is 103

i am lost here .
The car is going ok around 25 MPG now ( City & highway Mix )

i am hoping to improve it to 30 MPG .
was thinking if i get TDC it would run better and smoother .

TomCat39

Changing belts won't make a difference.

I'm not sure the write up is correct if it says to use the B7 cam gear.

I would see how the Y8 cam gear fits back up in comparisons to the B7.

Like I mentioned before, the best solution I've always seen is an adjustable cam gear. However, I suspect your Y8 cam gear was positioned correctly. 4.75° is supposedly half a tooth exactly and the key way variance between the Y8 and the B7 works out to be exactly 4.75°.

I think when you had the Y8 gear on, your timing was able to be set properly.

The tooth count of the belt is not going to change your mechanical timing, it only dictates belt tension, either just right, too tight or too loose.

osix

This is where i am Stuck at .

1. Should i change the Camgear Back ?
2. Should i adjust the current Camgear B7 ( by Advancing it by 1 tooth - no idea which direction and if it effective ? or how to do it any photo ? )
3. too much confusing data to confirm .

4. From rough data my compression is in the 11.0:1 or higher .
i am using 91 Octance Fuel ( gasohol ) no idea if it ok ?

MY Iginiation timing have been adjusted to the Max on Retard . Still 5% off at 20% now from TDC

TomCat39

Here is your issue. You do not know what block you have.

You can and have verified that your head is the Y8 casting. The block is another matter.

You have not pulled the head off to see what pistons you have or if they are even stock. You have not dropped your oil pan to see what rods you have.

From your findings of the B7 cam gear and how it's not fitting the write up for the B7/Y8 minime... I think your "C V" block is a D16 block, which means a higher deck height to accommodate the longer rod/piston combo.

What this means is the stock Y8 cam gear would be a perfect match as basically what you have is the equivalent of a D16Y8 engine. The variance might be in piston design and compression, but externally, the distances between the crank shaft and cam shaft are the same as a stock D16Y8.

So yes, I think you are supposed to put the Y8 cam gear on, and explains why the OBD2 P6X ECU is quite likely the equivalent for the motor. The real issue you had/have was the missing O2 sensor for fuel trim once warm and of course a non fuel injection gauge cluster in a fuel injected car.

It doesn't appear you have a minime, you have what appears to be a D16Y8 or a very close resemblance to.

osix

What i know
1493cc
When i Pull the oil pan under and took the CrankShaft

the Piston Bar have the Number "3" on it .
I got a wrong Crankshaft that the Piston Bar mark " 6 " i got to return it .

So i know my Piston Bar is mark "3" Possible early model .

i know the Car is 1493cc cos is on the Car registry .
There is no extra info .

currently i know
The lower block is higher 1500 since the car was a Carburetor running on 1493 cc before the Mod

The D16y8 was from a Auto car since it came with the P6x-T51 ( auto ECU )

Cluster should be standard carburetor since CEK engine would not work on it .

i drove a D15b and a D16 the current car is way more powerful in my view but need tuning to get TDC .

i can feel the Dry power feeling .

TomCat39

When you say piston bar has a "3" on it, you mean like this?




Car registry doesn't mean a whole lot. It would likely be registered with what it was supposed to have stock. You have a mystery block so they would likely keep the same 1493CC displacement assuming it's the same block.

osix

Yes that the Number "3 "
Do you have more info on this as to find out what the Engine is .

i got the Crankshaft that have the Piston and arm bar that is Mark " 6 " and it can;t turn normally and got stuck .

i went back twice to the junk yard to get the right Crankshaft . so i notice the Mark " 3 "

TomCat39

Those 3 casting stamped rods are b7 rods. The Z6 has something else casted into it.

Put your Y8 gear back on and align it to TDC while the crank is TDC and see if your belt aligns perfectly or is half a tooth off.

My plan on doing my minime with the B7 block and the Y8 head is I was going to aling everything TDC with no belt, then pull off the Y8 cam gear and slide my AEM adjustable on. Move the adjustable to be up pointing striaght up and then work the belt on from the crank pulley side, then tighten the cam gear adjustment screws down.

You on the other hand have to put the Y8 gear TDC with no belt while crank is TDC then see which gear aligns properly with the belt. Which ever gear meshes with the timing belt perfectly is the gear you use.

Hope that makes sense.

Oh and just so you know, if it's the B7 gear that aligns to the teeth perfectly, the mechanical timing marks of the B7 gear most likely will NOT line up to the head like it does on a stock motor. You will likely have to make your own markings.

The purpose is to have all the teeth mesh perfectly with the change in distance between the camshaft and the crank, let along the change in key way position.

The Y8 gear will show you where the TDC spot is on the Y8 camshaft but might not mesh perfectly with the timing belt.

osix

Is there any Visual or setup photo to refer to .
is kinda hard to imagine . the process . i only understand half of it .

Assumingly my Block is B7 and my Head is Y8 . and now my Camgear is B7

You suggest i go back to Y8 Camgear.

meaning .
Block B7 Head Y8 & Camgear Y8 ?

This is where i am Confuse reason - What about the 4.75degree that everyone is talking baout to retard or advance i think .

Didn't we went for the B7/8/Z6 camgear for the Retarded 4.75Degree Half tooth ?

TomCat39

I have not done the build as of yet. I'm in the process of this exact build (cheaply). So I am like you, can only go buy the information in the write ups.

What I do understand is supposedly the distance between the camshaft and the crankshaft is shorter with this head block combo.

Supposedly enough to create a half a tooth variance.

The teeth on the timings belts are a set distance. Now supposedly one of the stock cam gears should align perfectly with the teeth of the timing belt. That does not mean the mechanical timing marks will align but the teeth will.

The Y8 cam gear will show you TDC of the Y8 camshaft in the head. At TDC, the gear and the timing belt will not mesh perfectly supposedly. However, when you slide the Y8 gear off, and slide the B7 gear on, the teeth all should align as far as the write up is stating.

What it does not state is the mechanical timing marks (the up, 3 and 9 0'clock marks) will not be in the proper position indicating TDC on the camshaft even though the camshaft is in TDC. This is where you will have to make your own marks for future mechanical timing checks.

You have to remember, those marks are all relative to the motor they were built for, when you change things, those timing marks are no longer valid.

I didn't get time to mock up the build this weekend so I will see if I can tomorrow night. I will have a more definitive answer for you after the mock up as well as some photo's.

24TEN

iTrader: (2)

Measure the block height and you'll know. It's either going to be 207mm (D15X) or 212mm (D16X).

Caoboy

Tomcat, if one were to put the y8 cam gear on, and it is 4.7* advanced, does it advance further every revolution? Or just as much as the belt is longer?

My synapses aren't completely firing yet, but I had a brainstorm that if one were to rotate the belt one full revolution, it'd be advanced further, instead of lining back up where it would be. And every revolution that much further. Trying to figure out if there is a 'quick' way with each cam gear to see which one is 'correct'..by rotating the belt and seeing if it stays true at the end of each revolution.

In the end, maybe the simplest solution to solve this problem is an adjustable cam gear, for this guy. That way he can line up his timing marks on the head, on the crank, adjust it so that when he spins the belt around 5 revolutions, it's still lining up everything at TDC and he's good to go.