speed_demon018

i want to know what would be the best turbo set up.

mattliston

more information

there is no best turbo setup

some peeps want low end grunt, some want massive topend, some want a good midrange, and some want a little extra power with streetablity still in mind.

post numbers, what kind of power curve you want, etc.. realize you cant have a turbo that makes big power everywhere and still expect it to have traction.

speed_demon018

i just want a smaller turbo set up for about mid to top end its for my d16z6 and not alot of power

CivicSD

youre still going to get broke off quite often so some would argue, to an extent, to "save your money"

speed_demon018

what do you mean broke off?

CivicSD

i mean stock sti's and evo's will still be able to run a train on your d-series. You do know what a train is, don't you??

speed_demon018

thats fine i dont have 25000 to buy one of those other wise i would plus i like my honda.. so what are some good turbo things

elausente.509

Well you could do a junkyard turbo kit for dirt cheap on ur d16z6, I would just save the money and get a b-series motor and build from there. And screw a sti and evo, HONDA ALL THE WAY!!! Ne ways if u need some info on the junkyard build let me know, I got the issue out of HONDA TUNNING about it on my computer desk as I speak, lol.

mattliston

best junkyard turbo to my knowledge is the turbo off the 1st gen probe gt's // mazda 626's.

medium sized, fast spooling, very rare to find them for a good pricee

also consider sourcing a turbo off a new beetle GTI or golf? jetta? GTI, which ever is running with a 1.8 liter gas motor. I saw this turbo first hand, spools fully at 1200 and can easily hit 170 whp with room to spare. but thats a full rev turbo setup. not great, but would make for a quick little runner.

a turbo of a mitsubishi eclipse//eagle talon// plymouth laser (all the same car) either 1st gen or 2nd gen. difference is a slightly bigger turbo


go with a factory 1st gen DSM blow off valve (mits, eag, ply), the 2nd gen dsm BOV's work, but are plastic


sidemount intercooler form a saab or mitsubishi. it will be fine for 200 or less wheel horse. anything higher, go for a traditional front mount.

charge piping, go for 2" for small turbos, and 2.5 for medium. 3" you should stay away from unless you are gonna run big power

custom or aftermarket 2 or 2.25 exhaust will be fine, 3" would make the turbo spool faster (less resistance to flow) but would be terrible sounding unless you have a VERY nice muffler


homemadeturbo.com has lots of nice info.

junkyard kits, Ive help build one that cost 200 bucks plus the cost of the turbo rebuild kit, about 100, so closer to 300. Ive also seen some people make one from about 600 bucks

just be sure to do some proper research and verify the parts are in working order. I know alot of DSM guys like to jack up the boost on stock parts, and that accelerates wear and tear, they dont care, they only need to replace a turbo and intercooler if they need to, where we need to source everything lol

shailoche

The D16Z6 motor can easily handle 200whp with the correct tune. That would be my advice, go with the setup that mattliston suggests and set aside $250-$500 for a good tune. If you spend the money to have the car tuned properly it will last you a lifetime.

As far as the WRX, STI, EVO...save your money argument...just ignore that. Your car doesn't have to beat any other car in a race in order for it to be FUN to drive. Driving is about having fun. So, get a turbo and drive it like you stole it.

Incidentally, if you are like mattliston and me, we both have Del Sol Si's and they only weigh-in at 2200lbs. With a 200whp turbo-d you will keep it close with most STI and EVO drivers. They have cars that are 3200lbs with 300 crank horsepower. They only put down 210-225 wheel horsepower. Do the math...a 200whp Del Sol Si COULD keep up with an STI or EVO. It is simple math... STI=14.2lb/whp...Del Sol turbo-d 11lb/whp...Tell me how the STI wins?

mattliston

power-weight doesnt matter when its that close, you have to look at the driver, transmission gearing, and the power bands.

our hondas will have a sharp power curve up high, where an STI has a nice fat curve, with real low torque lol.

pretend the del sol and the sub weigh exactly the same, have the same tranny's, and both motors have the same peak power. the sub is prolly gonna waste the del sol lol

shailoche

I don't agree with that at all and the math/physics make it factual.

Consider the Lotus Elise. The reason it kicks *** all over the track is because of the weight to horsepower ratio. That is the most important factor to making any car "fast." It is simple math, less weight to push/pull around makes the car go faster.
Granted the Del Sol doesn't have the suspension of a Lotus but the principle is the same.

Another example is the Miata. It too has a great weight to horsepower ratio. They win more auto-x races than any other car model...ever. It isn't because it is the most powerful car but because it is the best weight to horsepower ratio on the track.

If you take a car and make the engine more powerful it goes faster. Duh. If you lighten the car it goes even faster. Duh x2.
The transmission will only alter the acceleration characteristics based upon gearing ratios. In the end the car with the best horsepower to weight ratio will always win the race. (If you take the driver out of the picture. Obviously, the driver's talent is important.)
And when the difference is as substantial as what we are talking about here, an STI with 14lb/whp versus a Del Sol with 11lb/whp, it is not a contest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-to-weight_ratio


Why else would people strip their cars down to bear metal and lighten every facet of the car? They do it to improve that all important ratio.

In fact lessening the weight of a car is more important than adding horsepower.
There is a calculation that shows that for every 100 pounds added it is the equivalent of removing 10 horsepower. But for every 100 pounds removed that is the equivalent of approximately 23 horsepower added.
It isn't a constant since there is a ratio involved. The ratio is inversely proportional. What happens is that the more weight removed the better the power/weight ratio becomes and the faster the car gets.

Here is how it works and the math doesn't lie.

1) Calculate vehicle's current weight(x).

2) Subtract the amount of weight you’re removing.

3) Take this new number(a) and divide it by the horse power of the vehicle (y). The number you come up with (z) will be the amount of lbs. per horse power after the reduction. (Step 1)

4) Then divide 1 by the number of pounds (z) and multiply it by the weight before the reduction(x). This new number (b) will be the new simulated horsepower of the vehicle. (Step 2)

5) Take this number (b) and subtract the horsepower before weight reduction(y) from it. This will be the simulated gain(s/hp (g)). (Step 3)

Step 1: a/y=z
Step 2: (1/z)*x=b
Step 3: b-y=g

But in the end the lightest car with the most horsepower wins!

This technical information was provided by some friends of mine on the ford forum. They were kind enough to give me the formulas to support the truth behind the power/weight ration.

ej1love

pm me if ur interested in the eclipse setup; i got everything u need except a manifold... and u can use an hx mani...

speed_demon018

not sure if i want to go that route though.... what is the problem with an ebay kit or one like it?

shailoche

The quality of the actual turbocharger is the problem. Ebay kits, in general, are not the highest quality. Typically, Ebay kits use the lowest grade parts possible in order to keep the price low. You are better off buying a good used turbo off of an old Eclipse, Probe, Conquest, or Volvo.

NastyHabitzCRX

ugh i love this bench racing BS. i raced an EVO in my turbo D, while he did ***** me out from a digg(duh i expected that), i reeled him in an layed the beat down on the big end.

shailoche

Thank you for adding your personal experience to prove the point.
Lighter weight, more wheel horsepower, and enough track is all that is required to win the race!

Unseen Racer

before you move any furthur in this site
PLEASE READ THE FAQs as well as the FORUM GUIDELINES

shailoche

Toward whom was this directed? I don't think that there are any forum violations on this thread. Could you be more specific about your concerns? We are all trying to help the OP with his issue and to advise others about the truth behind power/weight ratios and their meanings/uses.

speed_demon018

yeah really all i wanted was advice on a turbo set up for my civic

shailoche

I hope that we helped you out. I know I offered up some additional information but I wanted to encourage you to ignore the haters out there who tell all of us D-series turbo guys that our cars suck.

Keep modifying your car to suit your own taste. Don't be swayed by those who would tell you that a turbo can't make your car competitive. It can. But most of all it would make your car fun.

And mattliston and I have some history together on superhonda's forum. He is a good guy and knows a lot about Del Sol's and turbo systems. Use his post to guide your build.

apexi_rsx

gt28 turbo is a good quick spool. im running low 14's stock block 9~10psi in a fo-doh

speed_demon018

my friend just turboed his civic and i was like that sounds good

speed_demon018

what is the gt28 from?

ALLxMOTOR EG

You would get better answer in the Forced Induction forum.