XkjeldorX

First off, i searched and found nothing that answered my question. I know how to do timing belts as i have done them on my b18 and b16. But this is giving me trouble and i dont know why, so pls try to help me. If u want pics and i can post some too so u can see what i am seeing. Here we go
On the back timing belt cover there are two arrows, looking at the engine the mark on the right is a bit higher then the mark on the left. I line the marks on the cam gears with the marks on the back cover (the "Up" is facing UP). Now i line up the mark on the crank sprocket with the arrow on the oil pump and slide on the timing belt. Here is where the trouble begins.
The belt is tight around the crank sprocket, around the tensioner and water pump. Now when i try to slide it over the cam gear, the teeths on the belt dont line with the groves on the cam gear. I either have to move the cam gear or the crank in order to slide the belt on, but if i do this, the timing is going to be off.
I did try the following: I lined up the marks on the cam gear flat with the head surface and then put the timing belt on and it went on fine. I tensioned the belt and rotated the crank and everything lines up. But i dont know if this is correct.
Pls help

Cliff notes
Lined up marks on cam gear with marks on back timing belt cover
Lined up crankshaft sprocket with arrow on oil pump
Timing belt wont slide on!
Lined up marks on cam gear flat with head
Timing belt slid on, is this right???

Here are some pics of how it sits now, tensioned and everything.
Is this right???








Modified by XkjeldorX at 5:12 PM 9/25/2007


Modified by XkjeldorX at 5:14 PM 9/25/2007

XkjeldorX

going to sleep....
anyone???

drtysohc

Are you sure you bought the right timing belt? Was the head milled?

trrbl1bmx

I have milled a d series twice and had no problems. Make sure when you first install the timing belt that you never rotate the engine backwards. Rotate COUNTER clockwise until you have done about two revolutions, wait for a tight spot and tighten the tensioner. Now spin back around and check the marks again. Another thing to consider would be don't look at the plastic, line those lines on the cam gear parallel with the deck of the block.

trrbl1bmx

Also make sure you are getting all the slack out of the tensioner before you slide it on.

Murk 'EM

also make sure your intake cam is lined up correctly.. there should be alignment holes in the cam caps and the cams you can put aan 8mm screw or punch in it to make sure its at cly1 tdc

drtysohc

A milled head on ANY over head cam motor will cause timing to be off...although it may be less obvious on some motors. IMO the only reason to have a cam gear on a single cam is to adjust for a milled head.

GSaura

I had a very similar problem trying to get my gsr timing belt to line up properly with the oil pump mark, cam gear marks, and timing cover.

The length of the belt between the cam gear and the crank gear is what sets those marks to the right place. If it's a little too long and the tension is correct, the cam gear will be slightly under-rotated when the crank gear is pointing at the timing mark on the oil pump. That's the only thing that can cause it. If you slide the belt off and move it a tooth in any direction, the timing will look wayyy off. The only way to fix it is with an adjustable cam gear as others have said.

I just ran mine as it is, and it seems to be doing fine. It's on a standalone and making lots of power, so no problems here. Did you look at the position of everything before taking the old belt off? The only reason that I started mine the way it was is b/c at TDC before the belt change, the crank pulley didn't exactly line up with the timing cover mark. Good luck

IA95civicDX

I have a milled head and block on my built z6, it sucks cant get that timing right.. I got it really close but had to use the dizzy a little

trrbl1bmx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drtysohc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">A milled head on ANY over head cam motor will cause timing to be off...although it may be less obvious on some motors. IMO the only reason to have a cam gear on a single cam is to adjust for a milled head. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Your statement is true to an extent. However, you won't see that much MECHANICAL timing diffence, like shown in the pictures above. Unless you mill your head .250'' which is not possible unless you have grand canyon pistons. The only purpose a cam gear serves is to move the camshafts Intake Centerline.
If you disagree you must read up on cam degreeing.

XkjeldorX

thanx a lot guys for trying to help out, let me answer some questions now.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drtysohc &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Are you sure you bought the right timing belt? Was the head milled?</TD></TR></TABLE>
the head was never milled and i got a OEM timing belt.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95_acc0rd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">also make sure your intake cam is lined up correctly.. there should be alignment holes in the cam caps and the cams you can put aan 8mm screw or punch in it to make sure its at cly1 tdc</TD></TR></TABLE>
I wanst aware of this. I know the B series have them. I'll have to look into this.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSaura &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Did you look at the position of everything before taking the old belt off? The only reason that I started mine the way it was is b/c at TDC before the belt change, the crank pulley didn't exactly line up with the timing cover mark. Good luck
</TD></TR></TABLE>
If i remember correctly, i dont think it all lined up just like you stated.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by p00n &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have milled a d series twice and had no problems. Make sure when you first install the timing belt that you never rotate the engine backwards. Rotate COUNTER clockwise until you have done about two revolutions, wait for a tight spot and tighten the tensioner. Now spin back around and check the marks again. Another thing to consider would be don't look at the plastic, line those lines on the cam gear parallel with the deck of the block.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is exactly what i did. As you can see in the pics the lines on the cam gear is parallel to the head surface.

I'll just have to look into the alignment hole on the cam cap and camshaft like 95 accord stated.

Zerotls

i just did the timeing belt on my D16y8 and the marks on the side of the cam were impossible to line up. i just used the "UP" mark (match it with the bump in the middle of head where the cam goes through), and the crank arrow. umm as for moving the cam durring the instalation of the belt, i had no such troubble, what i did was take the belt put it on the crank put it over the tensioner. then push the tensioner all the way to get the as much slack as possible on the belt pull it tight and slip it over the pully and then the cam gear it went on easy (that was you get the most belt possible to slip over the cam gear). make sure to adjust the belt after you put the crank pully back on, like the honda manual says (i forgot to and had to take the whole thing back apart to line it all up from scratch).

onereving7

Like said before, you line the marks up on the cam gear even with the head, not with the arrows on the plastic cover.

XkjeldorX

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Zerotls &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i just did the timeing belt on my D16y8 and the marks on the side of the cam were impossible to line up. i just used the "UP" mark (match it with the bump in the middle of head where the cam goes through), and the crank arrow. umm as for moving the cam durring the instalation of the belt, i had no such troubble, what i did was take the belt put it on the crank put it over the tensioner. then push the tensioner all the way to get the as much slack as possible on the belt pull it tight and slip it over the pully and then the cam gear it went on easy (that was you get the most belt possible to slip over the cam gear). make sure to adjust the belt after you put the crank pully back on, like the honda manual says (i forgot to and had to take the whole thing back apart to line it all up from scratch). </TD></TR></TABLE>
I only had to move the cam during installation when i lined the cam gear marks to the arrows on the back cover.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by onereving7 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Like said before, you line the marks up on the cam gear even with the head, not with the arrows on the plastic cover.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have come to realize that. there was going to be no possible way to align everything up if i used the marks on the back cover.

Thanx everyone that helped me out. Its why i love this place

hall97civic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by XkjeldorX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">







Modified by XkjeldorX at 5:12 PM 9/25/2007


Modified by XkjeldorX at 5:14 PM 9/25/2007</TD></TR></TABLE>

Looks good except for the cam gear is a fuzz off. YOu are doing everything correctly with lining the 'notches'(on the cam gear) up with the head. if you are off by one tooth, then you will know that you are off, can make you car run like *** and miss at higher rpms. (When I did my friends crx, I was one off and it would miss at 4000+ rpm). Also if there is red dust in your dist cap after the timing belt you can tell that your timing is off.
hope this helps!

XkjeldorX

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hall97civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Looks good except for the cam gear is a fuzz off. YOu are doing everything correctly with lining the 'notches'(on the cam gear) up with the head. if you are off by one tooth, then you will know that you are off, can make you car run like *** and miss at higher rpms. (When I did my friends crx, I was one off and it would miss at 4000+ rpm). Also if there is red dust in your dist cap after the timing belt you can tell that your timing is off.
hope this helps! </TD></TR></TABLE>

If you are talking about the second pic, It looks like its off because of the angle i took the pic at. As you can see in pic 1 and 3 the lines line up fine. Thanx for the suggestion.

stock_honda_coupe

If I remeber right the tensioner is on the left side of the engine, If I do remember right, follow these instructions and see if it helps. Try putting the belt around the cam first, with the cam gear timing marks dead on. Hold the belt there with some large paper clamps(or anything that'll keep the belt on the gear). Then rotate the crank counter clockwise a tooth or 2. you may have have to try a couple times to get things to line up right. Put the belt on every thing on the right side of the engine, then around the crank. Then rotate the crank clockwise back to its original position. Make sure the cam don't move (if it does take the belt off the crank and try rotating the belt counterclock wise less teeth). if every thing is good tighten the belt and double check all the marks. I've done tons of belts on many different makes, and this always worksfor me.

XkjeldorX

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stock_honda_coupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If I remeber right the tensioner is on the left side of the engine, If I do remember right, follow these instructions and see if it helps. Try putting the belt around the cam first, with the cam gear timing marks dead on. Hold the belt there with some large paper clamps(or anything that'll keep the belt on the gear). Then rotate the crank counter clockwise a tooth or 2. you may have have to try a couple times to get things to line up right. Put the belt on every thing on the right side of the engine, then around the crank. Then rotate the crank clockwise back to its original position. Make sure the cam don't move (if it does take the belt off the crank and try rotating the belt counterclock wise less teeth). if every thing is good tighten the belt and double check all the marks. I've done tons of belts on many different makes, and this always worksfor me.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you basically saying, start from cam gear, around w/p, tensioner and crank sprocket at the end? I dont know if this will work because as you can see in the third pic, there is a tap on the crank sprocket that keeps the belt in place. If i was to place the belt around the crank at the end it would be kind of difficult if not impossible because the tab would not let me slide the belt on.

stock_honda_coupe

Tensioner is allways last. I the tensioner is on the right side if the engine, (which from the picture it looks like it is) then do the reverse of what I said. still start at the cam, but go down the RIGHT side of the engine, with the crank turned a couple teeth CLOCKWISE. and so on.....

GSaura

The tighter you make the belt on the exhaust side, the more under rotated the cam gear will be compared to the crank/oilpump marks. There's really nothing more that you can do other than say a prayer and start it up or buy an adjustable cam gear. You are nowhere near an entire tooth off. It looks like you've done everything you can to me.

XkjeldorX

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSaura &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The tighter you make the belt on the exhaust side, the more under rotated the cam gear will be compared to the crank/oilpump marks. There's really nothing more that you can do other than say a prayer and start it up or buy an adjustable cam gear. You are nowhere near an entire tooth off. It looks like you've done everything you can to me. </TD></TR></TABLE>
My thoughts exactly. I can also always adjust timing a little by the dizzy too.

stock_honda_coupe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by XkjeldorX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
My thoughts exactly. I can also always adjust timing a little by the dizzy too.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Cam timing and ignition are different adjustments. You can't compensate for valve timing by adjusting the dizzy.

XkjeldorX

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stock_honda_coupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Cam timing and ignition are different adjustments. You can't compensate for valve timing by adjusting the dizzy. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanx for clearing that up for me
I always thought that if you were off by a little the engine would still run right by adjusting the dizzy a bit. Guess not.
We'll at this point i'm just hoping for the best and motor is going in next weekend so i'll see what happens