werteg

My valve timing is correct but my ignition timing needs more advancment but my distributor is at it's limit. It needs about a quarter inch more advancment. I also can't adjust idle any higher witch it needs like 120 more rpm. Do I have to replace somthing? Distributor, o2 sensor, ecu? I tryed to set the ignition timing correctly with service check jumped. Some times I can set the timing correctly when cold but ones engine is warm to hot it goes to retard. The vacume check says late ignition timing.
About my car :
1993 Civic DX 3Door Automatic Stock
Engine = D15B7 witch came with a PM8 8 valve Civic CX head. -Engine rebuilt with new belts, hoses, pumps.
Head = Rebuilt and Machined PM3-6 16valve witch I swaped recently since I needed a 16 valve head
Vehicle Condition = Rebuild the engine, installed the machined 16valve head, new oem injectors, good fuel pump, good main relay, code readable ECU, new oem battery.
Replaced the rotor and cap of the distributor.

Only things I have not replaced on the engine are the Distributor, Igniter, Coil, and spark plug wires. I recently replaced the midus muffler since it was rusted out and causing back pressure. Possibly over heating my catalytic converter and o2 sensor.

My conclusion =
1. May take it to local honda dealer for $100 to $200 to find solution.
2. Buy new distributor with spark plug wires.
3. Buy a ECU
4. Buy a O2 Sensor
5. Buy correct head or camshaft -what is the right head code for my year/model?
Other thoughts =
1. Valve timing with crank shaft are lined up for TDC, Camshaft and distributor marks are at TDC, and rotor is wiping the no.1 sparkplug wire.
2. Have tryed setting valve timing retarded with good results for Ignition timing but pour engine performance and the valve timing looked off a tooth.
3. Have checked and rechecked.
4. Currently getting pour gas mileage.

So what do you master techs think? hehe. -if you guys know this one I can answer several post that people have with the same problem.
I need my car to get to college so any quick help is apreciated.

_-=UPDATED_-=I may move this problem to new post called "Help... I can't set idle and need more rpm" https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-civic-del-sol-1992-2000-1/help-cant-set-idle-need-more-rpm-2874209/
since I need proper idle to set timing first hehe

I learned to check idle first befor finding problems with ignition timing, Yup that is the result of this post. I think I am almost done with solution to this rough idle and acceleration problem.

shawn_crx

Your timing is off a tooth or two

werteg

Ok.
Just to let everyone know, the head was surfaced for a good mateing surface for the headgasket. Supposidly this could change the distance from the camshaft to the crankshaft and mess with the belt.
So possible if I got a adjustable cam sprocket/gear then I could make my quarter inch adjustment that I need for advancing my ignition timing witch will basicly advance my valve timing.
And overall this is still frustrating since currently the TDC marks of the crankshaft, camshaft, and distributor are all lined up for TDC.
I have tryed recently to advance a tooth on the valve timing but had pour engine performance and the TDC marks looked off a tooth just to let everyone know.

Im still pointing at the distributor hehe.

shawn_crx

I can't remember but some head on the D-series TDC has difference spot position.

werteg

Hmm, Ill check distributor part numbers for PM3-6 head "head that I installed from ebay" and PM9 head "head that is supposed to be on my civic". It's frustrating though since the TDC marks on the distributor lines up to TDC on the camshaft. The camshaft tdc lines up with the crankshaft TDC so all is well. Tricky situation.

shawn_crx

I don't know what PM3-6 head is but cam TDC is pointing downward when you align them with Crank

werteg

I was told to verify at witch sparkplug wire the rotor is pointing to so I think my valve timing is correct. I even used a TDC gauge in a NO.1 sparkplug hole to get crankshaft verified at TDC. It all lines up. The problem is isolated to the distributor, ECU/PCM, or O2 sensor.

shawn_crx

Is your Cam TDC line up with the back cover under D16Z6?
When my happen, I hook align the TDC's correct, but after I tighten them down it moved on me due to the tension is on the front of the belt.
The Dizzy only goes in 1 way.

werteg

That is one thing i still need to get for my engine is the heads back timing cover and top front timing cover. I have been aligning to the top of the head minus the head/valve cover.
I have set it befor to one tooth retarded to see what it would do. It fixed the ignition timing but had poor engine performance and the sprocket looked off a whole tooth.
I have a D15B7 from 1993 and my car is the 1993 Civic DX 3Door automatic.

werteg

Today I tryed to adjust idle and could not. Is it becuase of the timing? I modified the distributor to get more adjustment and ounce it was adjusted it simply went to retard/late timing again. Any ideas? Should I buy a new distributor? Will a bad O2 sensor cause less rpm of idle? Or is the ECU bad?

canadaek

no o2 sensor has nothing do do with timing or rpm what mark are you using on the crank pully for the ignition timing ? the 3 marks or the lone mark. you want the middle of the 3 lines

werteg

The lone mark "lone white mark" I am using for TDC, and the middle mark "red mark between two white marks" I am using for initial timing. Im about to solve the problem.

Cause is a bad O2 sensor. I asked my smog class teacher and he said that the O2 sensor would read lean if bad and will through off idle so much that it can stall the engine. It also effects timing. I then told him about how my engine had a head gasket failure witch contaminated the o2 sensor with all the moisture and a bad muffler that over heated the exhaust system possible damaging my cat and o2 sensor. He said yes that will damage the o2 sensor. So I am buying tonight a denso oem o2 sensor for $54 shipped from denso's website and I will report back with a correction to my timing update.

turbodcxbro

iTrader: (1)

Your "teacher" needs to go back to engine management 101 because a bad 02 sensor is NOT causing your timing issue. It will affect your air/fuel ratio in closed loop only, thats all its there for.

You have shaved the head, which has retarded both your cam timing and ignition timing, common with any honda when the head/block is milled. You will need an ajustable cam gear and degreeing fixture to get the cam timing spot on and then you will need to slot your distributor to enable you to advance it to proper timing.

Wow, all these replies and none that state the obvious! and I'm a Honda noob!

apexi_rsx

if the heads been milled you need a adjustable cam gear to get it back in sync. this is probably why u don't have enough adjustment

turbodcxbro

iTrader: (1)

See my post above ^^^^

Archidictus

If he has an adjustable cam gear, he won't have to do anything to the distributor, as he'll be able to mechanically set the timing to the point it would have been with a stock engine, thus the distributor's range will be fine to set everything where it's supposed to be.

OP - think before you post, kid. The distributor isn't meant to be jammed all the way in one direction or the other to make up for bad mechanical timing. Didn't it occur to you that, maybe, you had done something wrong?

canadaek

2nd ^ don't tell me i'm wrong before you fix your car . and your teacher is a dumb ***

werteg

And my car is made in japan so I have to ship it over seas to a honda dealer to fix it. hehe

turbodcxbro

iTrader: (1)

Huh? canadaek are you referring to me?

canadaek

no sorry i was agreeing with you and bitching at Werteg.

werteg

Well obd1 o2 sensor would lean out my fuel/air mixture and cause the engine to stall. Currently it's just contaminated and I can start if I give it some gas but I am getting pour gas mileage. I can't set my idle and therefor I can't set my ignition timing. Ounce the heated o2 sensor is supposed to take over "like after starting when cold" it doesn't give a true reading and it starts to run lean. That's why I could set the timing when just starting but not when it is warm or hot.

canadaek

well if you think thats the problem why don't u just unplug it and run it on base values ? is your check engine light on. if it has a code for the o2 its not even using the readings from it.

werteg

Theres no check engine light currently. That is the only problem with OBD1. The check engine light only turns on if there is a complete failure of a sensor. I havn't tryed unpluging it but I will try that tuesday.

werteg

My initial rpm reading is 320rpm and it needs to be 420rpm plus or minus 50rpm while the EACV "electronic air control valve" is disconnected. I can't adjust the idle any further. Therefor the timing could not be set. Since then I have set the timing by holding throttle manualy at proper RPM.

Tommarow morning I will try and swap out my 115k mile old Fast Idle Air Valve with a 40k mile old one that I have as a spare.
So any ideas master techs?
I have made a new thread and here is the link: https://honda-tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2874209
Here is my proceedure I will do first thing in the morning.
Just to let you guys know, this air control valve and the camshaft are my favorite devices.
Happy hollidays from my local Honda and Acura dealerships and myself.

search24ma

Please PM me the same.

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