Anyone drive automatic transmission?
12-02-2006, 07:51 AM
#3
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Anyone drive automatic transmission? (dels)
This thread is an invitation for a flame fest.
I have a 93 DX auto and a 90 Si manual. I love both cars but the truth is that I drive the auto 90% of the time. If you want to get an automatic, get a 92-95 because it's the only Civic that has 1-2-3-4 available on the shifter console. The vast majority of cars have either 1-2-3 only, or 2-3-4 only.
The bad perception of Honda automatics among the modder scene are in large part unfounded. Reports of automatics failing prematurely are usually due to abuse or neglect at the very least. They are equally as strong as the stock manuals once you have upgraded the clutch packs with TCI or some other brand. The clutch packs are the weak part of this trans and the rest of the trans is very similar to the manual in design. (There are two types of automatic transmissions. There are the planetary gearset types, and the Hondamatics available in the Civic from about 88-00.) The factory clutch packs are fine for street vehicles putting down less than 130 Whp (90% of street driven Hondas). Beyond that it is dependent on the number of miles and condition of the trans and fluid. It strongly recommended that you add a transmission oil cooler and use only Honda ATF. TCI and others offer shift kits and high stall converters for the D series automatic trans. The "master racing" shift kit costs the same as a rebuild kit that you would find at Autozone etc.
The 88-90 Civic auto is actually the most aggressive, and Honda toned it down each successive generation until 00 when it switched to the planetary gearset type.
Acceleration-wise automatics are at a disadvantage due to Honda's choice of gearing and the fact that the autos only have 4 gears. It's actually the gearing and not the torque converter which only eats up a minimal amount of power compared to traditional automatics. The gearing also is the reason why autos have a 2-3 mpg disadvantage compared to the manuals. The difference between the transmissions that came on VTEC equipped cars and non VTEC is only in the 4th gear which is longer on the VTEC models. So it's not worth swapping them. On the other hand, automatics create a lot of torque multiplication in the low RPMs and everyone knows that Hondas are in desperate need of some extra torque. The other advantage to automatics is that they are always in gear, even during a shift, and immediately preceeding the shift there is a big spike of torque. If you turbo your car, you can take advantage of this trait because the turbo will not drop boost between shifts, and the auto trans will actually help spool up the trans.
Driving impression between an automatic and a manual is that the manual is much more nimble, particularly the EX/Si. That is the reason why manual trans equipped Civics are so common. In stock trim, this car has a minimal amount of power, even on the VTEC models.
My advice is this: if this is a second car or a car that you are driving primarily to expletive around with, as opposed to driving primarily to work/school and back, get a manual trans. For daily driving, particularly in high traffic areas, get an auto trans. If your only reason for getting an auto trans is because you don't know how to drive stick, I strongly suggest you learn how to drive stick. It's not hard. Do not get an automatic if you think you will regret it later. Don't get an auto if you are easily influenced by other people's opinions, and your goal with your car is to impress others. It is NEVER worthwhile to convert an auto to manual. If you find yourself in a situation where you've invested a lot into your auto Civic and decide that you would rather have a manual trans, return your Civic to stock, sell it, and buy a manual trans Civic.
Auto transmissions are a stigma among the modder community. Your car will never be accepted by the mainstream and ignorant people will flame you at every opportunity.
Modified by suspendedHatch at 9:14 AM 12/2/2006
Modified by suspendedHatch at 9:15 AM 12/2/2006
Modified by suspendedHatch at 9:15 AM 12/2/2006
Modified by suspendedHatch at 9:16 AM 12/2/2006
I have a 93 DX auto and a 90 Si manual. I love both cars but the truth is that I drive the auto 90% of the time. If you want to get an automatic, get a 92-95 because it's the only Civic that has 1-2-3-4 available on the shifter console. The vast majority of cars have either 1-2-3 only, or 2-3-4 only.
The bad perception of Honda automatics among the modder scene are in large part unfounded. Reports of automatics failing prematurely are usually due to abuse or neglect at the very least. They are equally as strong as the stock manuals once you have upgraded the clutch packs with TCI or some other brand. The clutch packs are the weak part of this trans and the rest of the trans is very similar to the manual in design. (There are two types of automatic transmissions. There are the planetary gearset types, and the Hondamatics available in the Civic from about 88-00.) The factory clutch packs are fine for street vehicles putting down less than 130 Whp (90% of street driven Hondas). Beyond that it is dependent on the number of miles and condition of the trans and fluid. It strongly recommended that you add a transmission oil cooler and use only Honda ATF. TCI and others offer shift kits and high stall converters for the D series automatic trans. The "master racing" shift kit costs the same as a rebuild kit that you would find at Autozone etc.
The 88-90 Civic auto is actually the most aggressive, and Honda toned it down each successive generation until 00 when it switched to the planetary gearset type.
Acceleration-wise automatics are at a disadvantage due to Honda's choice of gearing and the fact that the autos only have 4 gears. It's actually the gearing and not the torque converter which only eats up a minimal amount of power compared to traditional automatics. The gearing also is the reason why autos have a 2-3 mpg disadvantage compared to the manuals. The difference between the transmissions that came on VTEC equipped cars and non VTEC is only in the 4th gear which is longer on the VTEC models. So it's not worth swapping them. On the other hand, automatics create a lot of torque multiplication in the low RPMs and everyone knows that Hondas are in desperate need of some extra torque. The other advantage to automatics is that they are always in gear, even during a shift, and immediately preceeding the shift there is a big spike of torque. If you turbo your car, you can take advantage of this trait because the turbo will not drop boost between shifts, and the auto trans will actually help spool up the trans.
Driving impression between an automatic and a manual is that the manual is much more nimble, particularly the EX/Si. That is the reason why manual trans equipped Civics are so common. In stock trim, this car has a minimal amount of power, even on the VTEC models.
My advice is this: if this is a second car or a car that you are driving primarily to expletive around with, as opposed to driving primarily to work/school and back, get a manual trans. For daily driving, particularly in high traffic areas, get an auto trans. If your only reason for getting an auto trans is because you don't know how to drive stick, I strongly suggest you learn how to drive stick. It's not hard. Do not get an automatic if you think you will regret it later. Don't get an auto if you are easily influenced by other people's opinions, and your goal with your car is to impress others. It is NEVER worthwhile to convert an auto to manual. If you find yourself in a situation where you've invested a lot into your auto Civic and decide that you would rather have a manual trans, return your Civic to stock, sell it, and buy a manual trans Civic.
Auto transmissions are a stigma among the modder community. Your car will never be accepted by the mainstream and ignorant people will flame you at every opportunity.
Modified by suspendedHatch at 9:14 AM 12/2/2006
Modified by suspendedHatch at 9:15 AM 12/2/2006
Modified by suspendedHatch at 9:15 AM 12/2/2006
Modified by suspendedHatch at 9:16 AM 12/2/2006
12-02-2006, 10:20 AM
#5
Risky Business
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Re: Anyone drive automatic transmission? (suspendedHatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by suspendedHatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This thread is an invitation for a flame fest.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You wrote entirely too much for a question that didn't need to be answered.
You wrote entirely too much for a question that didn't need to be answered.
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