EJ7 Owner

Quick intro...new to Hondas, not new to cars. Owned an 33-R while I was living overseas, and have been in and out of the DIY maintenance gig for quite a few years. Just never had anything like this happen to any vehicle I ever owned.

I recently acquired a 1998 Civic HX for a pretty reasonable price. The previous owner replaced plugs, wires, cap and rotor 3 days before I bought it (saw the receipt) There was CEL light on, which I had cleared and re-read once the light came back on, as well as a couple other minor issues that I've already taken care of.

However, there are a few things I haven't and want to get opinions on.
The CEL codes come up as Cylinder 1, 3 and 4 misfire and multiple engine misfires.

From what I've read, it could be a multitude of things. But, it also has an issue of starting if it has sat overnight or for many hours. When it starts, the idle comes up, then drops flat and the car dies. You can hold the gas pedal down to keep the idle up for about 30 seconds. After that, the engine will stay running.

Once warmed up, it idles anywhere between 1,200 - 2,000 RPM. It doesn't fluctuate rapidly or hunt, just sometimes the idle is on the high side or the slightly higher side.

I'm pretty sure the head gasket/head/block are in good shape as there isn't a milky film in the oil or under the valve cover, plus no white smoke coming from the exhaust at normal op temp. I will have to replace the coolant recovery tank soon as it's cracked at the seam at the bottom and whatever goes in there just pours out the bottom.

The most common thing I've been able to find regarding the CEL issues is fuel pressure, plugs etc., valves out of adjustment, clogged/bad injectors or IAC/EGR needing cleaned.

I'm currently out on the road for work, so I'd just like to collect some tips for when I get home. If there are any tips to maybe help pinpoint which to try first, that'd be awesome.

Thanks in advance!

Jimi Hondrix

With 6th gen Civics (and possibly other gens) the most noticeable sign of a headgasket breach is coolant loss in radiator and gain of coolant in overflow tank. This will be noticeable over a few days time by checking both daily or upon each use of car. The most definitive test is performed with a block tester and test fluid.

As far as the misfires and CEL.. do an ECU re-learn by disconnecting the negative terminal form battery and drain excess charge by turning on hi-beam headlights and depressing brake pedal for 30 seconds then reconnect negative terminal. If the (CEL) codes come back (likely) then report back with the exact codes. Autozone will do a free scan if you don not have an OBD2 scanner.

EJ7 Owner

Thanks for the reply. I'll get that taken care of when I get back to my home. Hopefully sooner than later.

Life on the road...

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

verify mechanical timing, test distributor components.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

A block test would tell you the status of your head gasket, but wouldn't necessarily tell you other relevant information. Diagnostically, a coolant bleed would be relevant. Elevate the front end (park it uphill, or on ramps), remove the radiator cap, start the car, and let it idle for 3 radiator fan cycles. Keep the radiator topped off at all times, and keep an eye out for bubbles in the radiator. If, after 3 fan cycles, you're still needing to fill the radiator, then you have a coolant leak or blown head gasket.

After you've done that, if you don't have any bubbles, do a compression test. Your engine will already be warm, so you can easily do the test from there. Once you've done the dry test and written down the compression in all four cylinders, add about a teaspoon of oil (motor oil, cooking oil, whatever oil) and repeat. Give us the dry and wet compression numbers.

While you're doing all of this, a block test wouldn't hurt.

Again, while you're doing all of that, use a DEI/HEI/Inline spark tester, and tell us what color your spark is on all four cylinders.

EJ7 Owner

Ok, the other stuff, got it. Block test? Not sure I've heard of doing that.

Also, I'm ordering a new recovery tank as, like I mentioned in my opening post, mine is cracked and leaks coolant. I'm also replacing the rad cap, just to play it safe. But, what's the difference between an "OE Type, Micro" cap and a "Standard" cap?

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

A block test is simple. You use a little baster looking thing, suck up some coolant, then apply it to litmus - if the litmus changes color, you have exhaust gasses in your coolant, which means a damaged head gasket.

I don't know what the difference is there, but I wouldn't bother with aftermarket - go to your local dealership, get a cap from them.

EJ7 Owner

Ahhh...sounds simple enough. Thanks!

Former User

What engine and ECU?

Do misfire codes or any codes return after an ECU reset?

EJ7 Owner

Engine is 1.6L single cam. Best I can tell ya. Not a Honda guy, so I have no clue what code it is. Same goes with the ECU.

EJ7 Owner

The codes return after clearing them with a scan tool. Haven't done an ECU reset as I've not been home since Monday and won't be returning home til first week of November.

Former User

There's a label on the ECU and on the engine head and block for identification.

https://honda-tech.com/honda-civic-d.../#post48684945

The ECU is located behind the passenger kick panel.

EJ7 Owner

Ok. So, I've cleaned the IACV and the throttle body. They were dirty. Replaced the coolant overflow tank.

This time it started right up. Idue was still high though. Bout 1500.

Elevated the front of the car on the incline of our driveway to bleed coolant. Filled the overflow to just below MAX line and started it up After about 5 or so minutes, the coolant started rising above the cap neck so I shut it down. Put the cap back on and let it fun a bit just to see if I had any leaks. No leaks but now the coolant level in the overflow is higher than the max line.

Also did a dry compression test.
Cyl 1 - 175psi
Cyl 2 - 195psi
Cyl 3 - 220psi
Cyl 4 - 180psi

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

5 minutes isn't long enough to properly bleed the coolant on a cold engine. It's OK if it comes out from the cap while you're bleeding - that means there are air bubbles trying to escape. Do it again. Let it overflow.

Those compression numbers are...extremely worrying, though. You shouldn't have that much variance between cylinders. Repeat the test, but add a couple teaspoons of oil to each cylinder before testing, and give us those numbers.

EJ7 Owner

Well, the check engine light came back on again after letting it run for a bit. Too late to get them checked as all the parts stores are closed.

What is the usual compression on these? It's supposed to be a D16Y5. Can't really see the stamped numbers on by #4 exhaust port. The head has P2J-6 stamped on it.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

"Brand new", it's supposed to be 210. Since you're getting a 220, that makes me wonder if you're not doing the test wrong in the first place, but regardless, as long as you're consistently wrong, you should be within 10 PSI between cylinders. You pretty clearly are not. The head code doesn't really tell us much - The Y5 and Y8 used the same head casting, with different bits inside of them. The block stamp is on the front of the block, though, to the left, where the transmission bolts to the engine. It's a flat spot, about 2" x 2". Clean it off with some degreaser and find out what engine you have.

You don't need to go to the parts store to get codes pulled.'
https://honda-tech.com/honda-civic-d...lists-1901557/

EJ7 Owner

Ok. Took the Civic to a local shop a friend of mine owns for a coolant test.

No gases in the coolant. Currently letting it run to bleed out the coolant system now.

Also, I can see the block stamp.
D16Y5
3310302

Am going to try wet compression test tonight and see where it sits.

EJ7 Owner

45 minutes of bleeding air and still have bubbles coming up. Water pump?

Still need to check codes as well to see what's throwing CEL.

EJ7 Owner

CEL codes -
Cyl 3 misfire
Cyl 4 misfire
Multiple misfires

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

points to distributor problems, but with the air bubbles, compression variances, and misfires i am still saying head gasket/cracked head.

EJ7 Owner

Should I get the head checked first? Was planning to have the water pump amd timing belt done sometime next week while out on the road.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

I told you almost 2 weeks ago to do a block test. Do the damn test.

EJ7 Owner

Read my posts from today, dick.

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

You said your "friend" did the test. You also said there was still air in your coolant after 45 minutes of bleeding. Those two things don't match, and I don't trust answers that come from a "friend".

EJ7 Owner

Apparently, you can't read...

I said I took it to my friends shop.

If you want all the details since you seem to think I'm unintelligent...

His shop had the tester you put in the neck of the radiator with the blue chemical that you plug into a vacuum source and run the engine at least two minutes. The chemical didn't turn yellow like it would if there were exhaust gasses in the coolant.

Then, when I bled the system, I used the funnel system that has an adapter that connects to the radiator neck. That way you just pour coolant into the funnel and let it go.

I travel for work so it's not like I can just go out in the garage every time a reply comes in. Also have limited tools. Do all I can do myself and take the car to the shop to get the stuff I can't do done.

I've done just about everything that's been suggested, with the exception of a couple things I haven't gotten to yet, in the three days I've been off the road.