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Old 05-11-2009, 08:37 PM   #1
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Default Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

i just bought a 96 civic ex for a very good price however it has a painful sort of gringing noise that only shows its self when the clutch is engaged. as soon as i put my foot on the clutch the sound disapears and vise-versa, it also doesn't make the noise when in nutral.
i did a search and found that it would probably be a throwout bearing? am i looking to replace the right part? if im correct it wouldn't be an imput shaft bearing because it doesn't continue making the noise when i put my foot on the clutch and disengauge it? im not sure if im right here so correct me if im wrong
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Old 05-11-2009, 08:42 PM   #2
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

it is the throw out bearing
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Old 05-11-2009, 08:43 PM   #3
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

and if you can take a trans off then you can replace it. It sets in the clutch fork, really easy to replace
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Old 05-11-2009, 09:16 PM   #4
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

Normally, a bad throw out bearing makes noise with the clutch pedal depressed, whereas a bad input shaft bearing will make noise with the clutch engaged.
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:31 AM   #5
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

so i was right to think it is the throw-out bearing?
how hard is it to get to the clutch on these cars? can i do it with basic hand tools?
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:35 AM   #6
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

I would say input shaft bearing. to do this its a little more complcated then a throwout bearing as you have to take the transmission APART.
i don't know what you consider BASIC hand tools, but there would be a fair amount of work if you don't know what your doing.
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:54 AM   #7
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

Quote:
Originally Posted by black96 View Post
so i was right to think it is the throw-out bearing?
how hard is it to get to the clutch on these cars? can i do it with basic hand tools?
Please read this transmission FAQ written by SovXietday.

Below is a relevant quote suggesting that your problem is a bad input shaft bearing:

Quote:
4. Common Problems
Almost always I read this issue and it is true for just about ANY manual vehicle you will ever own. If you are hearing a dull grinding/sliding sound while in gear your mainshaft bearing is going (aka the ISB or Input Shaft Bearing). This bearing is located on the opposite end of the mainshaft and gets worn quickly because of the clutch pushing it in and out. This bearing also takes the brunt of the torque from your engine. When you replace this bearing it's best to just replace all of the bearings at once, and always use OEM Honda bearings. The install itself is not bad but if you've never pulled apart a transmission I'd suggest against doing it yourself unless you have someone who knows what they're doing to help.

Strange noise when you push the clutch in and let it out. Generally doesn't happen too much when the car is in gear. This is usually the throwout bearing. MUCH easier to replace than the mainshaft bearing.
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Old 05-12-2009, 08:58 AM   #8
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonJ@HT View Post
Please read this transmission FAQ written by SovXietday.

Below is a relevant quote suggesting that your problem is a bad input shaft bearing:

Thanks for the info. and i have never taken out a trans before so i will probably be taking it to a shop/ local mechanic.
what would be a reasonable to pay for the repair?
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:14 AM   #9
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

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Originally Posted by black96 View Post
Thanks for the info. and i have never taken out a trans before so i will probably be taking it to a shop/ local mechanic.
what would be a reasonable to pay for the repair?
My first EK had the same bearing problem. Turned out it was cheaper to pick up a second hand gearbox from a scrap-yard and pay the garage to switch them over rather than pay for the time it would take to strip the transmission and replace the one bearing.
While the transmission is off, you might want to consider putting in a new clutch too.
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:26 AM   #10
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

You guys are not looking at this right..

release bearings don't care what gear you're in.. And the likely hood that a release bearing "GRINDS" is next to none.. Release bearings usually squeek, not grind..

If it grinds only at a complete stop with the engine running and transmission in gear clutch in, it can be 2 things..
1) someone put the clutch plate in backwards.. it would be difficult to get the trans in gear if this were the case.. This would NOT grind if clutch released in gear or neutral.

2) The pilot bearing may have locked up or is worn out.. This could cause damage to your flywheel and/or your input shaft on the transmission. if the pilot bearing is the culprit, it would not make noise while the clutch pedal is released, and might possibly make a little noise while in neutral with the clutch pedal pressed..

If it grinds while accelerating from a complete stop in gear, engaging the clutch, it's possible the clutch is worn and the rivets are grinding into the flywheel/pressure plate.

If it grinds only while moving in gear, clutch out, look at getting a new transmission. this noise would reduce or go completely away while the car is moving while clutch is pressed.


Hope this helps..
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:31 AM   #11
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

throw out bearing
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:39 AM   #12
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

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Originally Posted by gotz2b16 View Post
If it grinds only while moving in gear, clutch out, look at getting a new transmission. this noise would reduce or go completely away while the car is moving while clutch is pressed.
If I understood correctly, this is the best match for the problem described in the OP. So, based on the information, do you agree or disagree with the diagnosis of a bad input shaft bearing?
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:44 AM   #13
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

definately not a throwout bearing, Throwout bearings dont grind, they squeal as said before. Also, throwout bearings have very little pressure on them when the clutch is engaged, which means they shouldn't make any noise. Pilot bearings do however have little rollers that will make a grinding noise.
As for pulling the transmission, ive done this twice, once to replace clutch, and once to replace rear main. Even with very little knowledge, you should be able to pull it and have it back together within a day, a weekend at most. And the best part is it will be a lot easier on your wallet.
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Old 05-12-2009, 12:43 PM   #14
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonJ@HT View Post
If I understood correctly, this is the best match for the problem described in the OP. So, based on the information, do you agree or disagree with the diagnosis of a bad input shaft bearing?
This situation is typical of bad transmission bearings or chaffed/worn transmission gears. Usually only happens if trans is subject to heavy heavy loads for long amounts of time, low fluid for extended period of time, or lack of regular maintenance.
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Old 05-12-2009, 12:49 PM   #15
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

Okay. Just wanted to clarify your diagnosis.
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:05 PM   #16
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

I was reading my own post and got slightly confused..

I'll break it down by part that may fail..

Release bearing (Throw out bearing)
Usually squeel while clutch released, silent when clutch pressed independent of gear selection (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, N, R) .. conditions typically change with engine speed.

Pilot bearing
Most noticeable when in any gear at complete stop with clutch pressed. May be slightly noticeable in neutral while clutch pressed. Can cause clutch chatter when "slipping" the clutch (Usually typical of pilot "bushings" not so much bearings) no noticeable symptoms when clutch pedal fully released in any gear.

clutch plate
-may feel clunking between accel/decel while driving or possible rattling/grinding when clutch pressed in any gear while car at complete stop (broken damper spring stuck internally, or trapped between disc and fly/pressure plates)
-slipping
-grinding only when clutch being released in gear at complete stop, and/or accelerating from a complete stop (Worn out and rivets grinding flywheel/pressure plates) you will notice this only when "slipping" the clutch. no noticeable symptoms when clutch pedal fully released
-Grinding with clutch pressed, in gear at a complete stop, or accelerating from a complete stop. (possibly installed backwards, this will result in difficult if not impossible shifting into any gear at a complete stop.)


Pressure plate
-Clutch will not release (Overheated)
-Severe engine vibration (Broken torque strap between plate and cage)

Transmission
-silent or little noise in neutral at complete stop, (bad bearings/gears)
-noise when accelerating or decelerating, (bad bearings/gears)
-clutch slipping (Bad front seal contaminating clutch plate)
-No noticeable noise when clutch pressed and in gear at complete stop (Nothing in the transmission is moving)

Hope this is a little clearer, even though it's still a mess.
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:18 PM   #17
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotz2b16 View Post
Release bearing (Throw out bearing)
Usually squeel while clutch released, silent when clutch pressed independent of gear selection (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, N, R) .. conditions typically change with engine speed.
This statement differs from my understanding of a bad clutch throw out/release bearing, and also contradicts a comment made by 94EG8 (a knowledgeable HT member) in post #7 of this thread and the information found in SovXietday's transmission FAQ.

Last edited by RonJ@HT; 05-12-2009 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:25 PM   #18
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

Yes you are correct ron, the throwout only makes noise when your pushing on the pedal, the rest of the time it doesnt have pressure on it. For those that dont know, when you push on the clutch pedal the slave cylinder pushes on the fork, which acts as a lever that pushes on the throwout bearing, causing the pressure plate fingers to release the clutch disc. Thus the throwout bearing is under pressure during this, which can cause the squealing noise, but definitely not a grinding noise.

Last edited by thi3v3z; 05-12-2009 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:52 PM   #19
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

"Strange noise when you push the clutch in and let it out. Generally doesn't happen too much when the car is in gear. This is usually the throwout bearing."
Taken from #4 on http://www.hondacivicforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=57398

"And let it out" being the key words.. Throw out bearings have NOTHING to do with gear selection and therefore are independent of gear selection.. The squeeling is usually not the bearing itself, but the interaction between the diaphram spring (fingers in the middle of the pressure plate) and the face of the throwout aka release bearing.. They are usually both coated with some exotic coating that prevents this from happening, however nothing ever really lasts forever.. When this coating wears off (Usually from bent fingers on the diaphragm spring from overheating your clutch, or just excessive wear from normal use which is not very often) it becomes bare steel on steel and creates a squeek as the difference in distance around the TRUE centerline between the transmission snout that the release bearing rides on, and the TRUE centerline of the engine.. Although you may think it's rocket science exact within .0001", it's not.. This difference creates a slight rubbing that results in noise. the scenario either way will vary with clutch position the exact same in any gear and will vary in pitch with engine speed.

I do also want to add that there IS pressure on your release bearing when your foot is off the pedal. There is a pre-load spring in your slave cylinder that keeps the slack between the pivot ball and release fork, release fork and bearing, and bearing to diaphragm spring. This acts as an "Auto adjust" feature and keeps all the slack out of your clutch assembly, both mechanically and hydraulically. This is why cars with Hydro transmissions feel the same until the clutch is worn out, whereas a cable trans requires adjustment through the life of the clutch to maintain optimal operation and to eliminate wear related slack..

Last edited by gotz2b16; 05-12-2009 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 05-12-2009, 03:15 PM   #20
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotz2b16 View Post
"Strange noise when you push the clutch in and let it out. Generally doesn't happen too much when the car is in gear. This is usually the throwout bearing."
Taken from #4 on http://www.hondacivicforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=57398

"And let it out" being the key words.. Throw out bearings have NOTHING to do with gear selection and therefore are independent of gear selection.. The squeeling is usually not the bearing itself, but the interaction between the diaphram spring (fingers in the middle of the pressure plate) and the face of the throwout aka release bearing.. They are usually both coated with some exotic coating that prevents this from happening, however nothing ever really lasts forever.. When this coating wears off (Usually from bent fingers on the diaphragm spring from overheating your clutch, or just excessive wear from normal use which is not very often) it becomes bare steel on steel and creates a squeek as the difference in distance around the TRUE centerline between the transmission snout that the release bearing rides on, and the TRUE centerline of the engine.. Although you may think it's rocket science exact within .0001", it's not.. This difference creates a slight rubbing that results in noise. the scenario either way will vary with clutch position the exact same in any gear and will vary in pitch with engine speed.

I do also want to add that there IS pressure on your release bearing when your foot is off the pedal. There is a pre-load spring in your slave cylinder that keeps the slack between the pivot ball and release fork, release fork and bearing, and bearing to diaphragm spring. This acts as an "Auto adjust" feature and keeps all the slack out of your clutch assembly, both mechanically and hydraulically. This is why cars with Hydro transmissions feel the same until the clutch is worn out, whereas a cable trans requires adjustment through the life of the clutch to maintain optimal operation and to eliminate wear related slack..
Yeah, I'm obviously still trying to get a grasp on differentiating sounds made by a bad throw out bearing versus a bad input shaft bearing. In general, it seems that a bad input shaft bearing will make noise when the clutch pedal is not pushed down at all whereas a bad throw out bearing will make noise when the clutch pedal is pushed down, whether it be held down or in the process of coming up. Based on these ideas, I was commenting on this statement that you made about a bad throw out bearing "silent when clutch pressed independent of gear selection", which I thought contradicted my understanding of a bad throw out bearing.

By the way, I hope you are not offended by my inquiries. You clearly know more about the clutch than I do.
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Old 05-12-2009, 03:31 PM   #21
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

Look up top!! it's RIGHT THERE.

Sit in your car.. start it up in neutral push your clutch a few times..
Does the noise exist?
if so, does it change when you press the clutch pedal?
If you drive the car, does it sound the same when going through all the gears?

if all are true, you need a release/throw out bearing..


you're not giving us much info to work with..
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Old 05-12-2009, 05:41 PM   #22
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotz2b16 View Post
Look up top!! it's RIGHT THERE.

Sit in your car.. start it up in neutral push your clutch a few times..
Does the noise exist?
if so, does it change when you press the clutch pedal?
If you drive the car, does it sound the same when going through all the gears?

if all are true, you need a release/throw out bearing..


you're not giving us much info to work with..
So, if you have a bad throw out bearing, are you saying it will be silent when you push the clutch pedal down in gear? It remains unclear from your answer.
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:29 PM   #23
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

sorry its taken me so long to get back to you guys i've been at work all day ><
but thanks for all the fedback i appriaciate it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotz2b16 View Post
Look up top!! it's RIGHT THERE.

Sit in your car.. start it up in neutral push your clutch a few times..
Does the noise exist?
if so, does it change when you press the clutch pedal?
If you drive the car, does it sound the same when going through all the gears?

if all are true, you need a release/throw out bearing..


you're not giving us much info to work with..
alright, i just went out to my car and did these tests.
i noticed that yes, it does make a noise when not moving in neutral ( very slight though, but still noticable) and when i put my foot on the petal and disengauge the clutch it makes the sound go away imediatly. the noise starts right up again about the same point that the clutch would be engaging.
and when i am driving the car it does make noise in every gear but is lounder in the first gears.

also the car it seems to make far less noise when the car isnt under load compaired to accelerating it seem to make more.

thanks for the info keep it comming
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:36 AM   #24
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

so from the sound of it im looking at the input shaft bearing
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:38 AM   #25
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Default Re: Grinding noise when clutch is engaged

yea it is your release bearing for shour you have to take the tranny out and change it, its pretty easy but takes time
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