Ace0246

After parking my car for about a week, I checked the oil, then got inside to crank it up and let it warm up. It fired up, sputtered, then died. When I went to crank it back up, something sounded terribly amiss. It spun really fast (which I didn't understand), and then in future attempts to crank it, it just keeps turning over and over, but won't fire. Seems as if it's not even trying to crank. I smell fuel after holding the starter engaged for a while. I have spark, I have air. hmm.... any recommendations before I have it towed to my local shop?

Here's the setup:

1993 Del Sol S
Stock D15B7
Stock P06 ECU
Walbro 255 in-tank (in preparation for built turbo swap)
Stock Ignition System
Apex VAFC (by-passed at the moment)

First thought was a fuel main relay. Moisture, humidity and a lot of heat can take their toll on relays and such. So checked all the solder joints in it and touched them up. All were OK. Fuel pump is working fine (primes when you go to crank, then shuts off like normal).

Changed out the coil with a known working coil (out of my running 95 Del Sol SI). Nothing.

Changed out the ignitor. Nothing. At this point, I put old ignitor and coil in my 95 SI and it runs fine.

Checked for Spark by putting a screwdriver in a plug wire and holding it by a ground. Spark is OK.

Pulled the plugs. Looked a little rich on a couple, but overall OK. Plugs are factory spec NGK-R ZFR5F-11.

Changed ECUs (tried stock p28 from the 95 SI), still wouldn't crank.

By-Passed the VAFC on the Pressure Signal. Nothing.

Running out of options here. I pulled the Valve cover to look at the timing belt and it was on there snugly. I rotated the crank to TDC mark on the pulley and the horizontal lines were parallel to the head. I'm guessing it's still in time.

Not really sure what to do. It just doesn't add up as far as what could have changed in one rainy week.

Thanks in advance for the help.


- Kevin

95dxhatch

i didnt read anything about the starter. did you check it?

Ace0246

the starter is engaging normally. it turns the engine over and over, but it just won't fire.

james p.

moisture? a leak somewhere?

I wish I could help more, but here's a free bump.

Santys EK

this may help https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1264133

scott

MrPotatoeHead

hahahahaha thats my thread^.....

Santys EK

i rememeber reading pretty much the same thing on ur thread so i was what the hell post the link to it

scott

SILENTJ95835

well it seems like you have checked majority of all the major things that can be wrong. dont mean to sound like a dumb a&* or insult you. but i would check the fuse panels in the engine bay/ under dash to see if main relay, ignition fuses are bad. i know you said you checked the fuel main. were you having issues with the car before you parked it? what were they if you did. did you check the cap/rotor when you took the dist apart? is it throwing a check light after it died on you? hopefully i mite help a lil.

Ace0246

good idea on checking ALL fuses. I got the main ones out ot the way, but careful attention to detail is going to be key in this situation. The distributor cap looks great, and the rotor button could stand to be replaced, but was working fine as of 2 weeks ago. there were no issues when i parked the car (now 2 weeks ago), as i don't drive it when it's raining (haven't had time to replace seals i have in stock). it isn't throwing a CEL after it turns over and over now, and it didn't after it turned off the first time. I appreciate all the help. i'll work on this some more tomorrow, and keep updates posted. another thing i'm gonna check is the Timing Belt (which appears to be intact, but needs a more thorough inspection, and a check to make sure everything is still in time).

Chiovnidca

Does it have fuel presure?

Ace0246

yes, it has fuel pressure. looks like the engine is bad...but i'm not sure how it could have gone bad from sitting for a week. it was running fine before hand. it used a bit of oil, (it was 1/2 qt. low when i checked it) but it didn't smoke when i got on it. the compression test doesn't lie though:

cyl / comp
1 90
2 40
3 40
4 30

yes, i was at WOT during the compression test.

i have no idea as to why. the engine is in time, and i even manually cranked it over and watched the belt and the cam turned over with the crank. the timing marks line up on the lower timing cover and i even put a screwdriver on top of the #1 piston, and it moves to its highest point when the mark lines up on the crank pulley. i'm going to have the car towed to a well qualified Honda racing mechanic here in town with whom I am good friends. Maybe he will be able to shed some more light on the situation.

Chiovnidca

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ace0246 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
cyl / comp
1 90
2 40
3 40
4 30

</TD></TR></TABLE>
It may be flooded. Try pulling out the spark plugs and letting it dry out a day or two.

Ace0246

wow. many weeks have gone by since this problem surfaced in my sol. It was a clue to my mechanic that I let the car sit.

Everything was fairly normal EXCEPT...

The cylinders had 90% leakdown in all cylinders. Why??

CRUD.

This engine has seen a fair share of sitting up while not being driven, and when it was in the first del sol, it always ran really rich.

The deposits on the valve faces became worse and worse as it sat and built up crud on them. We scoped the valves through the injector ports and the looked great. So Angelo Roberson, of Holy Smoke Racing (local Honda guru) took apart some of the valvetrain and beat on the valves to knock off some of the crap that was on them. After cranking the car at WOT with BG Intake system cleaner being sprayed in, the car finally fired up. I held it at 3,000 RPM while he sprayed in the cleaner and it burned off alot of the hydrocarbons that had formed on the valves causing them not to seat, thus losing compression.

Angelo said that they had a mechanic at his previous shop back in the 1980's-early 1990's, who would do this just about every other day to cars that old ladies would have towed in because they wouldn't start. If you drive your Honda like an old lady, and put premium gas in them, this can really accelerate the symptoms. The car is running much better now with new NGK plugs and 87 octane gas. Just thought I would offer up the solution to the problem that seemed to have so many stumped!

CLIFF NOTES:

Crud on my valve faces from too high octane gas, and letting the car sit up for a while caused the valves not to seat proplerly. (90% leak-down). Poor valve seating=too low compression for cranking up. Problem was solved by hitting the valves with a tool to loosen the deposits, then using BG Intake cleaner and a fuel additive to finish off the job. Mechanic's words: "Go drive the **** out of it!"

Jayboy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ace0246 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> "Go drive the **** out of it!"</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats awesome advice! now there is actually a good reason to beat the **** out of our cars!!!