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Old 01-15-2003, 02:15 PM   #1
 
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Default del sol buyer's guide & model year changes?

I'm new to the "4" wheel Honda world...I have a Honda motorcycle.

Anyway, I've been looking for a VTEC Del Sol and can't seem to find any guidance or comparisons of the different years. From several searches I've got some basic info and lots of confusion.

1. Engines...B16A3 and B16A2 seem to be the DOHC VTEC motors? Are there any differences in compression ratios, connecting rods, HP, TQ? What year did the engine change? I've seen posts with overlapping years so I'm not sure what is the correct motor for what years. Which is considered the better engine?

2. OBDII...is 96 the first year for the Del Sol? Which is better for future performance mods, OBDI or OBDII? Is one more difficult to deal with? I know you must get a special reader for OBDII (not a big deal).

3. Leaking roof seals...were these fixed for all 95s or during the middle of 95? Can older Del Sols be fixed?

Any other notable mechanical, interior, exterior model changes from year to year?

Thanks for any info,
tom


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Old 01-15-2003, 08:05 PM   #2
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Default Re: del sol buyer's guide & model year changes? (odie)

go to http://www.teamdelsol.com or http://www.solcal.com
they have all the specs and info you need. hope that helps.
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Old 01-16-2003, 08:52 AM   #3
 
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Default Re: del sol buyer's guide & model year changes? (whoDAT)

the "www.solcal.com" doesn't seem to work. Click the image to open in full size.

but the first web site was great Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size. ...but it didn't seem to discuss any differences between the B16A2 vs B16A3 engines or the OBD vs OBDII systems.

I'm wondering if the difference in engines was just from the change to OBDII in 1996...perhaps minor changes to sensors, and other external engine components toe the OBDII system


[Modified by odie, 5:55 PM 1/16/2003]
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Old 01-16-2003, 09:51 AM   #4
 
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Default Re: del sol buyer's guide & model year changes? (odie)

1. i know the 94 b16a3 revs to 8.2k, dont know about the 95, the 96-97 b16a2 revs to 8k, but i think there all the same hp/tq

2. yes, idk

3. my 94 will drip once in a great while, its not even a consistant drip either, i think u can buy new seals


[Modified by solRNY, 6:54 PM 1/16/2003]
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Old 01-17-2003, 04:17 AM   #5
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Default Re: del sol buyer's guide & model year changes? (odie)

Quote:
1. Engines...B16A3 and B16A2 seem to be the DOHC VTEC motors? Are there any differences in compression ratios, connecting rods, HP, TQ? What year did the engine change? I've seen posts with overlapping years so I'm not sure what is the correct motor for what years. Which is considered the better engine?
Yes, these are the DOHC VTEC motors. The B16A3 was available in 94 and 95, and the B16A2 was available in 96 and 97, then again in the Civic Si in 99 and 00. They motors are ~identical mechanically and carry the same performance ratings. The 94-95 del Sol VTEC had an 8200 rpm redline on the tach, the later ones only 8000. I don't know why this is, but I have a 99 B16A2 engine in my del Sol and it revs happily to 8500 no problems - that's Hondata shift light indicated so its accurate.

Quote:
2. OBDII...is 96 the first year for the Del Sol? Which is better for future performance mods, OBDI or OBDII? Is one more difficult to deal with? I know you must get a special reader for OBDII (not a big deal).
Yes, 1996 was the OBDII changeover year. OBDII looks for more sensor input (second O2 sensor etc). Its a little more difficult, but there are ways to circumvent most issues (Zip has a resistor mod that will permit you to run a test-pipe in place of the cat without tripping the check engine light, for example. Not that I condone street use of a test-pipe). Not sure what you mean about a special reader - you check codes with a paperclip!......I'm pretty sure that there are more engine trouble codes with OBDII.

Quote:
3. Leaking roof seals...were these fixed for all 95s or during the middle of 95? Can older Del Sols be fixed?
I'm not sure when the roof seal fix went into effect - I've seen 94's with the new seals. Your best bet is just to examine the seals (or get a photo of them from the seller). Remember, any weather stripping can fail if its not properly maintained......regular application of silicone lube to keep it supple. Also, if the roof is out of whack, then the seals may not work properly and you could end up with a leak on a car with new seals. Roof maintenance is easy though, so do let that scare you. Any del Sol can have the seals upgraded - the parts run roughly $400 or so from the dealer. You could pull them off a wreck for much less.......

Quote:
Any other notable mechanical, interior, exterior model changes from year to year?
Limiting this to the DOHC VTEC model......major exterior change was 96-97 losing the aux lights in front, a revised front and rear bumper (really minor revisions). Inside, you got a remote trunk release and low fuel light in 95 (I believe). The wheel style changed in 95 or 96 too (fat machined 5-spoke to thinner not-as-smooth 5-spoke). Same sizes though. In 96 and 97 I believe there were also all black trim instead of the two tone gray/black. At least the interior door handles went from gray to black.......oh, and power locks I think came in for 95 along with ABS.

Another option for you is to get an Si model (has all the "creature comforts" unlike the base S model) and swap in a DOHC VTEC motor. Obviously a high mileage 93 Si will be cheaper, though you may have to do some door ding and rock chip removal (new paint) but you'll likely be able to save some money and have a newer engine.

Just food for thought.

Steve

P.S. Take a look at my page......link in sig.


[Modified by stevecockrill, 1:22 PM 1/17/2003]
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Old 01-17-2003, 11:30 AM   #6
 
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Default Re: del sol buyer's guide & model year changes? (stevecockrill)

it sounds like the only difference between the B16A2 and B16A3 is the OBDII issue with the pre-96 OBDI engines being a little easier to modify. Click the image to open in full size.

As for the 1.6 Si models, it appears I would loose the ABS and the brakes are 9.44" vs 10.44". Click the image to open in full size.

But the 1.6 Si appears to have a slightly taller 5th gear for better highway cruising. Click the image to open in full size.

What are the differences in HP & TQ output? The DOHC VTEC has about 35 more HP but the rating is at 1000 rpm higher. Is there any place that posts HP & TQ graphs? I wounder if the extra HP for the DOHC is all upper rpm where the VTEC kicks in. The TQ ratings for both engine are almost identical.

Which engine would be a better for a turbo kit? I'm guessing the Si due to it's lower CR. Less problem with detonation and boost limits.

Do the 1.6 SOHC Si and 1.6 DOHC VTEC share the same suspension or are the springs and sway bars different. Any steering differences?

I guess a 95+ Si would be a good alternative if the price difference would pay for a turbo kit or enough mods to boost the HP to DOHC levels. Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 01-17-2003, 12:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: del sol buyer's guide & model year changes? (odie)

Steve, you know your Sols Click the image to open in full size.

In my opinion, there is no substitute for the VTEC model. Picking up a used Si will be cheaper, but you are getting small brakes and a horrible suspension. The Si doesn't even have a rear sway.

All the B16's power comes above VTEC. In a drag race between an Si model and a VTEC, it would be close until the VTEC Sol shifted into second gear. 3rd gear it would start to walk away.

Since you're used to motorcycles, I assume you would enjoy the B16 a lot more, if only because of its enthusiastic (relatively) top end as opposed to the fairly lethargic D16.

Finally, a turbocharged VTEC would eat a turbocharged Si any day (equal mods). The only reason that I would pick up an Si is if I had the money to get the turbo and get a Hondata (or whatever engine management you prefer) in and tuned.
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Old 01-17-2003, 12:55 PM   #8
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Default Re: del sol buyer's guide & model year changes? (delsolguy)

Good luck finding a del Sol VTEC in good shape. I'd say just get a del Sol S and swap in the B16. Probably save money in the long run rather than buying one with low miles. The only reason I got the Si was because the guy was moving the next week and had to sell it pronto. So I chopped his legs off with the price. It's your money I'm just adding my .02.

Edit: Also, the Si is "quick". If you want a fast car I'd suggest the VTEC. I personally will be swapping soon. Haven't decided if I want to go LS Turbo or GS-R.


[Modified by Happyman, 1:59 PM 1/17/2003]
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Old 01-17-2003, 01:44 PM   #9
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Default Re: del sol buyer's guide & model year changes? (odie)

Quote:
it sounds like the only difference between the B16A2 and B16A3 is the OBDII issue with the pre-96 OBDI engines being a little easier to modify. Click the image to open in full size.
Yup, pretty much it.

Quote:
As for the 1.6 Si models, it appears I would loose the ABS and the brakes are 9.44" vs 10.44". Click the image to open in full size.

But the 1.6 Si appears to have a slightly taller 5th gear for better highway cruising. Click the image to open in full size.
Some Si models (later ones, I'm sure) had ABS......but yes, smaller brakes. BUT, remember almost everything mechanical on del Sols is interchangeable with 92-95 Civics and 94-01 Integras. So you can add rear LCAs from an Integra and mount up the rear sway. Really cheap too, and OEM parts. Same is true for the brakes, plus there are a number of affordable aftermarket options (fastbrakes.com).

My B16A2 w/S4C tranny (from a 99 Civic Si) runs at 4krpm at 75mph roughly in 5th. Its not bad at all.

Quote:
What are the differences in HP & TQ output? The DOHC VTEC has about 35 more HP but the rating is at 1000 rpm higher. Is there any place that posts HP & TQ graphs?
See plot below -

Click the image to open in full size.

The fat lines are the DOHC VTEC motor, the thin ones are the SOHC VTEC motor. From my page (link in sig, click MENU then DYNO for details)

Quote:
I wounder if the extra HP for the DOHC is all upper rpm where the VTEC kicks in. The TQ ratings for both engine are almost identical.
Its night and day driving the two engines, I've had both in my car. DOHC all the way.

Quote:
Which engine would be a better for a turbo kit? I'm guessing the Si due to it's lower CR. Less problem with detonation and boost limits.
Not necessarily. The DOHC is a lot tougher internally from the factory, but if you wanted to, you could use lower compression pistons.....at the end of the day, you can make any engine make power with forced induction, but the DOHC has more potential.

Quote:
Do the 1.6 SOHC Si and 1.6 DOHC VTEC share the same suspension or are the springs and sway bars different. Any steering differences?
96-97 Si models got the VTEC suspension. All Si and VTEC models are power steering, though its easy to convert back to manual using the rack and pinion from an S model. I did it, I love it. Again, remember all items can be swapped around, and most people will change out stock suspension anyway for some better aftermarket items.

Quote:
I guess a 95+ Si would be a good alternative if the price difference would pay for a turbo kit or enough mods to boost the HP to DOHC levels. Click the image to open in full size.
It seems you want the better trim/creature comforts of the Si or VTEC models over the S model. Well, why not go with the cheapest option - get a high mileage 93 or 94 Si, swap out the motor for a DOHC VTEC (B16A2/3, B18C1/5, etc) or even just a DOHC motor (B18B) and turbo it? You'll have saved a ton of cash over finding a low mileage good condition original vehicle, the mechanics are not hard and you'll learn a ton about the car when you tear it apart.

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Old 01-20-2003, 08:22 AM   #10
 
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Default Re: del sol buyer's guide & model year changes? (Happyman)

Lots of good info...

It sounds like my initial impressions were correct, the DOHC model is probably what I'll be looking for once I sell the spare Harley this spring.

Thanks guys,
Tom
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Old 01-20-2003, 08:29 AM   #11
 
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Default Re: del sol buyer's guide & model year changes? (odie)

Go obd1 if possible, they respond alot better to modification, and a harness is not needed to run a chipped ECU.
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