Archidictus

The situation is as follows:

We currently have a 1993 civic SI with a beautifully running D16Z6 and no modifications whatsoever. We also have in our possession a 1998 H22A4 swap (here's the kicker) from a Prelude SH. Obviously my father was not aware of the issues involved with this specific model and its swapping capabilities, but thanks to Honda4CX-R, we got a killer deal ($2000) on a perfectly running swap and couldn't pass it up.

I have the following questions. I am in need of both advise, the voice of past experience, technical information and any other commentary anyone can muster:

1.) Is it possible to make the SH-swap work and, if so, what needs to be done?

2.) The search function wasn't helping me with specifics, so what is different about the SH that makes it a pain in the ***?

3.) I'm pretty sure that we'll be going with a Raxles and HCP setup...do the HCP mounts have urethane inserts and do any H22 in an EH2 chassis mounts not have urethane bushings?

4.) Do any H22A transmissions bolt up where the SH-type one did? Are there any modifications that need to be done with a simple tranny swap other than the usualls?

5.) My dad is being a lazy/comfort **** and wants to keep both AC and PS. I know HCP or HASport makes an AC bracket, but what about the PS? Don't yell at me...it's his money

6.) With the Raxles setup do you need to change the intermediate shaft or are they made specifically to "bolt up" to the 'lude intermediate shaft?

& Finally

7.) What header gives the best clearance and decent performance at a reasonable price? He's not big on spending $500+ on a manifold, so gimme some ideas por favor.

Thanks people, you haven't let me down yet

Edit: Tom, if this post is too hybrid-related, move it to the appropriate forum and PM my *** ASAP. My dad and I need this info as soon as anyone can get it to us. Thanks.



[Modified by Archidictus, 1:50 AM 3/13/2003]

J2turbo21

Re post my friend and was done like 2days ago.I know jack **** about h22's type sh but i did read the post.It will be a pain in the *** and is totally not worth it.Also someone else said that you cant just get a older prelude tranny cause the block is different too.The oil filter is in a special place because of the sh tranny and if you swithc to a reg tranny your half shaft will not clear the the oil filter.I hope this helps.

Archidictus

Can anybody verify the above statements? Please?

YumVTEC

I can tell you that you for sure will not be able to run the ATTS crap that comes as part of that transmission without a ton of work and a wiring nightmare (if it's possible at all). i hadn't heard that the oil filter will be in the way if you try and use a non-ATTS transmission and half shaft. that's news to me.

Archidictus

Oh, don't get me wrong: I don't give a **** about the active traction system. I just want to know if the motor will turn on and work the way it is now. If it works in the prelude, I don't understand why it wouldn't work in an EH2.

SpooN Man

I think the main problem is the room factor. I don't think that it will fit. You will have to use a tranny from a NON- sh motor, I don't even know if the block will bolt up. Then the oil filter is in the way of the new half shaft (I don't even think that a NON SH half shaft will bolt up to the block.)

Reid

Tell your dad to sell the Prelude motor and pick up a Greddy turbo kit.

Since I doubt he'll be going to the extreme with his car, he'll have fun with a little bit of boost.

AB16A2T

Boo hiss on all of you. Can't take a joke.


[Modified by AresB16A2Turbo, 11:09 AM 3/13/2003]

SpooN Man

nerdsports

not ... more like

an h22 is a nice motor and all given it has wonderful amounts of torque for a lil hb and its HP #. but i feel like its a bitch... with a wonderful running d16z6. i do what was mentioned above and get a greddy kit. disregard this if ure not looking into turbo.... GOOD LUCK MAN!! let us kno what happens.

Newman

There are obviously things you'll need to get since you can't use some of the parts on the Type SH swap, such as rear tranny bracket, ATTS on the transmission, ECU, and the plugs are going to be different since it's an OBD-2 motor and your car is an OBD-1 car. Besides swaping out a few basic parts, the wiring is what's going to be the major project, depending on how you want to run things.


The SH motor itself is the same as any other H22A longblock, just with the US 10.0:1 compression pistons.

HCP mounts are full urethane inserts and are direct replacement mounts for the H22 swap. Very solid and no vibration. You need to get a 92-96 Prelude rear tranny bracket to make it work - the 97+ Type SH will not work.

Yes, any H22 transmission will bolt right up to the H22 block... they're all interchangable w/out any modifications.

Yes, HCP has an AC bracket you can use. If you use the 97+ Prelude power steering bracket and pump, you'll have plenty of clearance with the hood. The only thing you'll need is to have the PS lines machined to fit (welded or connected a certain way) but it works.

I've seen both good things and bad things with Raxles axles. I know Drive Shaft Shop has good axles, but don't know about the price. We use all stock Honda axles and change out joints/boots as needed, depending on the car and what intermediate shaft to use. Check out my post about axle configuration: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=434668

If you're not up to spending $450+ for a header, then might as well stick to your stock H22A exhaust manifold. The stock exhaust manifold is very similar in design and flow port sizes as the DC header, so I wouldn't waste any money on a header unless you get a Hotshot header (www.JDMshit.com/hotshot-header) or another good one (AN-R should be coming with a good one, and I believe RSR and some others are good on the H22 as well, but all are over the $400 price range).


This should give you some idea of what needs to be done.

smnowell

How do you have a post count over 3060, but post this crap?? I hope that was a joke....

filthy frank

ok well any tranny of h series will work even the f trannys from accords bolt on..
your motor will work fine. here is your problems you can work out.

convert to obd 1 w/ get your stock ecu(p28) mapped to your motor specs for a h22
i think you are going to halft to use gsr injectors. this way you wont halft to use the resistor box and bull **** that you need to run a p13 ecu. if you plan on using
the obd2 ecu good luck on getting it started!!!! you are on your own if you try to use that thing in your civic.

the h-swap in an eg will drive your dad crazy just stay away from him when he gets pissed and starts throwing tools.

the swap is no big deal sh,vtec it's pretty much all the same **** it's still an h22
the atts is a fake *** eletronic LSD. so you have a h22.
it's gonna take some time, i would sudgest getting helms manuels for the prelude vtec and civic si, you can ghetto your civic wire harness or you can buy a place racing harness made for plug and play. i think those run around 300$.
figure you are going to spend a nother 2,000 or more to get it running right
or you can sell it a buy a ITR motor and spend around the same money.
if i were you i would go through with it.

poison

The SH long block is far different from a regular H22A.

Oil filter is relocated, and far different from any regular H22A. I would definitely get rid of the WHOLE ATTS piece, and obtain a regular lude half-shaft, and get a different tranny. Such as the M2A4 or M2B4.

You'll also need to convert it to OBD1, and most likely use the Si harness from the hatch, and adapt it over to the H22A by extending the alternator cables, and adding knock sensor (EGR and Secondary butterflies are optional). You will also need to get an OBD1 P13 ecu, or chip the existing P28 to run OBD1 on the prelude motor.

HTH.

Hatchy-Ownzjo0

OK, here's an example of what I didn't need. My father and I have both done various Honda engine swaps and are very familiar with what ECU's, mounts, lines, brackets and axles need to be used. I've now been told in this post that transmissions can AND cannot be swapped, which is the main thing I'm interested in.

That said, I'm really asking:

1.) Will everything be fine if I swap an S-type Lude tranny onto this bitch, can it be swapped at all, if not why, if yes do I need anything different as far as axles go?

and 2.) Do all the harnesses that are sold from companies require a core deposit? I really don't want to **** with a core deposit, but if I have to, then of course I shall.

Thanks for the great, although sometimes contradictory, information. This is becoming clearer by the post .

filthy frank

OK, here's an example of what I didn't need. My father and I have both done various Honda engine swaps and are very familiar with what ECU's, mounts, lines, brackets and axles need to be used. I've now been told in this post that transmissions can AND cannot be swapped, which is the main thing I'm interested in.

That said, I'm really asking:

1.) Will everything be fine if I swap an S-type Lude tranny onto this bitch, can it be swapped at all, if not why, if yes do I need anything different as far as axles go?

yes all trannys will bolt up, and axels are the same ****! WHY would you put a type s tranny on that (bitch?) it's the same gearing as the us vtec h22 but with that bull **** atts. you want true lsd get a f20 (SIR-T) accord tranny, wich is the same gearing as the type s and vtec trannys but with a true lsd.OR you can try your luck and try to find a 99/00 acc type r tranny, wich has very close gearing
and true lsd.(gearing almost ideal to ITR tranny) go to the lude fourms and ask around.

and 2.) Do all the harnesses that are sold from companies require a core deposit? I really don't want to **** with a core deposit, but if I have to, then of course I shall.

nope! if your father and you have done varoius swaps than make your own from
your civic harness

Thanks for the great, although sometimes contradictory, information. This is becoming clearer by the post .[/QUOTE]

Hatchy-Ownzjo0

It's a SH engine.. it came with the SH tranny.. That is why we are having this problem.. the question is:

Will EVERYTHING work out with the SH tranny.. meaning: Can we use the SH tranny in the EH Civic Hatch?

filthy frank

sure why not? it's not auto right? the SH means (sports handeling) sh tranny has a electronic lsd wich can only work with the ecu it comes with. if you use a diffrent
ecu (wich you are doing) you will not have the atts.dont let that **** scare you
like i said before it will be the same gearing as a vtec modle, you wont have a problem.

Archidictus

We're not worried about gearing, nor are we concerned with the LSD. The point of the post is to get definate proof that you can or cannot use the SH transmission with the P28 ECU and have the motor work fine. I couldn't give 2 ***** about having limited slip. If I want it, I'll get Kaaz or Quaiffe because the stock Honda LSD is ****. The only concern here is will the engine fit/work properly? If I can get a "yes" from anyone with more than 12 posts, no offense frank, and some credentials, we're all set.

EK MONEY

iTrader: (5)

it will work fine, you just wont have it

filthy frank

hey bud you dont halft to be cocky!!
you asked for tech info on your org post, so i tried to provide it to you...
if you want Robot awnsers like yes and no fine! but now you know
what the sh tranny is so next time some one has this question you can pass it on when they need help. but i guess that dosent matter because
i only have 12 post. good luck.

Archidictus

Chill, bro, I threw you a "no offense" in my post . I knew what the SH tranny was the entire time, but I had various people saying "yes it'll fit/work fine" and others saying "hell no it won't". I'm just looking for as many answers as possible from people with experience, preferably. What are your credentials, frank? I never meant to insult

Honda4CX-T

Always ask NEWMAN and youre in safe hands !

accordhybrid

Here let me see if i can clear some things up for some people here the SH block is the same as a stock or base model prelude the only difference is that the oil filter is on the top half of the block closer to the driver side strut tower(which in a civic maybe real tough to get at, because it is hard to do with this setup in my accord) and the mounting holes on the block for the half shaft are on the opposite side of a normal prelude or accord half shaft. The only way I was able to correct this problem was to take my accord halfshaft and and weld 2 pieces of soild steel to them and then bolt it to the block, this maybe different with you getting custom axles I would let them know that you are workign with the SH block and see if they can help you.

As far as the transmission go's you will need to try and sale the SH tranny and get a base model tranny because if you look at the tranny on the SH you will notice that the driver side hole that the axle go's into is a lot bigger than the passenger side. Also you can use any 92+ prelude H22 tranny or and of the newer F series trannies 94-97 (maybe more) or you can also use the H23 tranny as well.

I do have first hand experience with the SH and this is what i know from doing this swap in my accord.

Accordhybrid

Archidictus

Thanks for that information . Here's the deal right now. My dad and I have decided to sell the whole thing (motor, axles, ECU, tranny, ATTS, harness, manifolds, accessories, etc.) and do suspension and repainting before we throw an H22 in it. It's a perfectly running Prelude SH motor with 86500 miles on it, a great clutch and flywheel, clean as hell because I spent no fewer than 3 hours cleaning the hell out of it with simple green and WD40, and all the accessories.

We're selling it for $2500 + shipping or we'll deliver it to anywhere within 2 hours of Columbus for a nominal fee. It runs great (starts on the second crank) and looks fantastic. The accident that the donor Lude was in involved hitting a tree dead-center in the front. The radiator ate it and the header has a lil dent in it (nothing bad, just cosmetic). I'd be happy to give this great engine a good home.

Just throwing that out there before I make a post in classifieds.

Peace and thanks for all the help