rhdins

I took my civic in to get the alignment done, and the mechanic that looked at it said that the right front tire is two degrees behind the left front, and that it can't be adjusted. He says that they need to do a cradle shift, where they unbolt everything (the frame and engine bay ) and try to shift it to the right position, and then bolt it back together.

The only reason I'm a little skeptical, is that I've had the alignment done before and they never mentioned this, they've just done the alignment. I'm wondering if others have heard of this or had it done, or how important it is.


The other thing, is that he said the rear is out of alignment, but it's not adjustable, so he would have to install an adjustable arm so that he could do the rear alignment. Once again, I'm pretty sure we've had the rear alignment done too, so I'm curious about that. Thanks for any help.

HCivicSi23

Your mechanic is explaining included angle. FWD vehicles are engineered with an included angle (set back difference between the two front tires) to provide straight line directional stability during acceleration. What is the issue he is attempting to fix by adjusting your included angle? After having done the alignment of the front wheels, what seems to be the issue at that point? If the included angle is out of specification (I'm not sure what the included angle specification is for your vehicle, but I generally use .5 - 1.5 degree as a benchmark specification), first check the suspension for any bent components (a bent spindle or a car that's suffered frame damage is a common culprit for an altered included angle).

I've only heard of stories where this has been a hidden issue most alignment technicians don't understand. Often, after adjusting camber, caster and toe, if a pull is not fixed, included angle is usually the culprit. Most alignment technicians do not understand all of the angle's and measurements that go into an alignment, your basic 3 (camber, caster and toe) are only a few. SAI, Included Angle, Thrust Anlge and Scrub Radius are just a few.

As for your rear alignment, you can only adjust toe in the rear on most Honda's, you mechanic is talking about installing an adjustable camber arm so that he may adjust the rear camber. That's the expensive route. You can accomplish the same thing an adjustable camber arm can do by simply buying longer camber bolts and shims (I did this for my car to dial in the rear camber, a total purchase of around $5 for everything, I used plain washers as shims).

There is an incredible amount of engineering that goes into the modern suspension/steering systems we use today, which it's important to understand ALL the alignment angles and how they correlate with one another (there are many more beyond just camber, caster and toe). I didn't mean to write a chapter book here, but I hop all of this helps you out!

rhdins

Thanks that is good to know. So does anyone know how effective a "cradle shift" is?

He told me that the right wheel is 2 degrees behind the left wheel, I don't know what angle he was talking about though. He said if it's like that I should have a pull to the right, which I do, that's what I was wanting to get fixed.

The car is rebuilt, before I bought it, so it may have had frame damage, but in the 6 years that I've had the car, I haven't had any alignment problems, it's only been till recently that it started pulling to the right, so I wouldn't think there is a problem with the frame.