Cap'N Chronic

So I have an 1998 Honda Civic lowered on D2 coilovers with stock EM1 rims.

I recently replaced the tie rod ends, and when I went to Firestone to get an alignment they said I needed the alignment specs for my coilovers.

Is there specs I need or does this guy just not know what he is talking about?

Also, I noticed that my back wheels have a lot of negative camber and they are starting to wear a lot on the inside? Do I need a rear camber kit? I have been told yes, but I have also been told no.

I know nothing about suspension, and I know there is threads every where about it but none of them make much sense to me..

akcapr

a camber kit is the only way to adjust camber, so you will need the camber kit. i dont think you need alignment specs, they should know that..

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Caster, Camber & Toe Explained.With pictures.

Cap'N Chronic

So I would need to get a rear camber kit and just get an alignment to stock specs?

alphalanos

You need a toe adjustment. When you lower the car you get more toe out, which needs to be corrected. Thats why your tires are wearing the inside edges.

98civdx

You don't need a camber kit.

Do you have a life time alignment?

It's called the washer trick. You place a few washers on the bolts on the rear UCA's between them and the car. This will help get rid of a little negative camber.

I did it, and was able to pull -1* with 2 washers. It will depend on the size though.

I go to firestone (life time) or I'd go somewhere else. Everytime I go in they try to sell me camber kits. Just tell them NO! Unless you really want them, and only then buy them.
But install your self.

Their job is to sell you every possible thing they can.

98civdx

I missed this, to get into STOCK SPEC'S, yes you will need a camber kit.

Why are you trying to get into spec's?

I am almost in stock spec in rear, and I'm lowerd 2.5'', but I'd need a kit in front to do it.

Cap'N Chronic

I don't really care what the specs are just as long as it doesn't bother me and my tires don't wear uncontrollably.

Right now my back tires are almost bald on the inside, and I'm not sure if its the alignment but my front end shakes quite a bit whenever I drive. Even after I got new tie rod ends.

Cap'N Chronic

Its the back tires that are wearing. There is no wear that I can see on the front but it does shake quite a bit when I'm driving.

98civdx

How are the lower ball joints?
Have you had the wheels balanced?
And how low are you?

I have noticed no unevean tire wear with about -2* all around. With just my toe set. I am lowerd about 2.5''

Cap'N Chronic

Haven't checked the ball joints and I have no idea if the wheels have been balanced. Got the car not too long ago, and I'm not sure what the guy before me did to it.

My front end is pretty low. Basically in the wells. So I would say 2.5? And the back is probably at 2.

mavvrik

When firestone tells you that they cant align it without the camber specs what they mean is that they cant really align a lowered car on alignment racks because the numbers produced by the alignment machines is for OEM!! Not modified. Those techs dont know what you want it set to degree wise. I know because i tell my customers the same thing all the time! Either A, get a camber kit, or B figure out suitable numbers for your camber and tell me because without the camber kit, i cant align it with the machines numbers. Also, at firestone (trust me i know, i worked there for a long time) your lifetime alignments arent valid if you have bad suspension parts. Firestone techs will not align a vehicle if the tie rods are bad, ball joints etc...I know when i get customers with lowered cars i dont align them either unless they have a camber kit.

Next, when you feel that vibrating its most likely your wheels. You need to have them balanced. That too i get at work almost daily

Also, theoreticlly Toe, is the only wearing angle on a vehicle. Again, this is OEM speaking. When you lower your car you shoot the camber out negatively and cause inner tire wear like a mo fo. An easy solution to getting your camber back to normal is installing Type R LCA's

Cap'N Chronic

Thank you for that. Exactly what I was looking for. So I can't get the back ones aligned without a kit or LCA's when I'm drivin slammed, and what do I need so you could align the front ones? Isn't there aftermarket bolts you can get?

mavvrik

No sir. Honda's didnt come with a factory camber adjustment because of the wishbone suspension design. You can either, get a kit, get a Type R LCA, or skunk2 among many others offer a top arm that you can buy

98civdx

So, your saying without a camber kit firestone can't align them car?
Please tell me your joking.

Firestone, can and will align a car without a camber kit. Ask me how I know.
What they can do is set the toe tothe proper spec's. Wether the car is lowerd or stock height the toe can be set!

You balance your wheels at work almost daily? WOW talk about overkill.

When you lower a car, the toe goes out, and the camber negative, so your correct there. However, unless your runing a freakish amount of negative camber, like -4*+ you will just fine.

My tires were wearing perfectly with -3.5*'s all around, and they continue to wear perfectly with the camber at about -2* all around.

A slight amount of negative camber will not wear your tires like a "mo fo", the toe being off will. When you lower the car, the toe goes out, and kill the tires, with a quickness. The camber will not.

Now, your suggesting he put ITR lower control arms on a 98 civic?

How can you say it will get his camber back to normal by simply putting shorter LCA's on? You do not know how much negative camber he is runing, or how much the shorter LCA's will remove.

Not to mention they are a different design, his coilovers will not work with them.

mavvrik

I could really care less on how you "know" they will align without a kit. Furthermore, Firestone is not allowed to align a vehicle if suspension components are bent/damaged. And if lowered, not without a kit And it doesnt even matter anyway cause out of the factory the camber is non adjustable.. Some shops do in fact align vehicles anyway however the store manager knows very well that if corporate finds out about it...he/she is in deep ****. Furthermore, techs often, if you have lifetime alignments, will put your car on the rack, and let it sit there to make it look as though its been worked on because they have something more important to due. Techs dont get paid on lifetime alignments, because of the one time charge a customer pays (180 bucks or so) the lifetime alignments are free--meaning no labor is charged, meaning the techs dont get paid, so they could really care less

No, I balance tires in general aka customers a couple times daily, not my own, learn to read

Yes, Camber affects Toe and Toe is truly the tire waring angle....as i already stated earlier. However the negative camber effect from dumping a car....not really helping the whole situation.

No, i put the Type R LCA's as a SUGGESTION (meaning not the ONLY solution). I've heard from multiple people that the LCA's can work and can bring camber close to where they should be assuming he has only dropped the car and no suspension components are bad. Again, why it was a SUGGESTION. Hense why i also SUGGESTED the skunk2 upper arms, or a full kit.

98civdx

Funny, My car is lowerd, it has no camber kit and it WAS aligned. I know it was aligned becuase of the damn print out!
I have back to firestone several times, and they have never once said anything about they cant. This was at different firestones.


I am sorry, you said, "that too i get at work almost daily". You said "I" that doesn't mean a customer. But, nice try.

I am fully aware camber changes toe, I am not arguing it doesn't.

Where did he say he was dumped? He stated he was lower 2-2.5". It looks like you are the one that needs to learn how to read.

The EG/DC LCA is shorter than 96-00, so it will work. This is not the correct way to go about fixing a camber issue. Even suggesting that is stupid.

djslim23

When I had this same issue before I got a proper alignment, still w/o camber kit, my wheels wore as well. I was also getting a lot of vibrations, A LOT. Then I switched to my snow tires and poof, problem gone. The vibration is likely your tires.

Cap'N Chronic

My tires or my wheels? Could the problem be because I need to get my wheels balanced?

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Unbalanced wheels don't cause the tires to wear on the inside only. Under/over inflation can cause wear but not on one side of the tire.

Cap'N Chronic

Its just the back tires that are wearing. The front ones are fine as far as I can see. Pretty sure its the front ones that need to be balanced because it just seems like the front end shakes.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

If the back ones are wearing on the inside the easy fix is to add washers.
http://www.team-integra.net/forum/bl...her-trick.html

98civdx

Where you slammed, or have low pro tires?

When you switched to snow tires did you switch the wheels also?

Even if you didn't switch wheels, when new tires are put on, the SHOULD balance the wheels. In turn fixing your problem.

djslim23

Tires. It's not a good idea to ride on worn tires like that. I'm not an expert on this stuff, so I'm not sure if having the wheels balanced would fix the problem.

I'm not slammed per say, but lowered. I went from my 16" C10's to the steelies with snow tires. All of my wheels were balanced before the tires wore. To the OP, balancing the wheels is not a safe solution to riding with worn tires.

Libertariat

I ran 2.5 degrees of camber on my civic in high school for 2 years with soft tires and not once did I have uneven tire wear.

Toe is the tire eater. I hate it when I see all the kids selling wheels/tires saying "has some camber wear"

Drives me nuts.

Unless your car is ultra-slammed you do not need camber kits to maintain even tire wear. Proper tire rotation is all you need.