silversilver

Boy do i have a bunch of questions ever since i got this car

I just got a 94 Canadian civic hatch back and i have lots of questions
Can anybody point me to a GOOD vin decoder or tell me how to decode the vin? I searched so much and came up with like 10,000 sites that all say different things. I want to know if i have a DX or CX. Some checking in the glove box shows a really old looking DX badge but i'd like to be sure. Car has ac, no sun roof and no power anything other than power brakes

like the vin decoder here says its a DX but automatic......(it's 5 speed)

I have a problem where it seems im using so much ffing gas. I filled up the tank and drove less than 20 miles(18) and im already a bit below half way....
The engine is a d15b7(not original, prev owner said it came from a del sol) 5 speed trans and p05 ecu. My old car (f20b civic) didnt even use that much and i beat that car mercelessly... Dont know if it's just me or the gauge since i've only filled up once.(it's also super cold here in the low teens if that matters)

I was wondering if it's just the gauge that is bad(has another gauge, prev owner said he changed it out. this one goes up to 9k and has a cruise control light

Isnt a p05 the ecu for a d15b8?(8 valve) How much would it cost me to go something like b20?

This car has a 1 wire o2 sensor, the o2 sensor is in one of the 4 pipes for the headers, shouldnt it be in the down pipe?


I've searched for everything above and no solid answer has came up for any of the questions i have

tony_2018

I think its time for a tune up....

silversilver

Do you think that it's just that? car has a new dizzy. not sure on the condition of the rotor or plugs so ill check tomorrow. needs new valve cover oil seals for the spark plugs for sure though(some oil was getting in)

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

The H-T VIN decoder is pretty good, from what I've heard.

VIN Decoder - Honda-Tech

At this point though, it sounds like the previous owner has fucked with things enough that what the VIN says you should have doesn't really matter. Yes, the P05 is a CX ECU for the D15B8. With the D15B7 that you have, assuming the PO didn't swap the head over, should be a P06, which can be found for cheap all over the place. You'll have to do a little bit of wiring, though, specifically for the O2 sensor. Check the head stamp to make sure the PO didn't swap heads. The head stamp should be on the left, above the exhaust flange. Post that for us, and we can tell you which head you have. Your O2 sensor location is fine for what it is - don't worry about it. Don't trust your gas gauge for calculating gas mileage. Top off the tank, put 50 miles on the car, and then top off again. Divide 50 by how many gallons you filled with the second time, and that's your gas mileage. Your question on B20 swap cost belongs in the value sticky, or you can check the FAQ (or my build thread) for many detailed how-to's, and figure out how much it'll cost you from there, as there are a number of deciding factors to it.

tony_2018

You know what, I hear that alot. Car got a "new" dizzy. To me knew means new from a parts store, some people would use the word "new" dizzy as a part thats new to them, but is in used condition. I would suggest start the ignition tune up if you HAVEN'T DONE IT YET.

You can't buy a used car and expect it to behave as if it were brand spanking new, come on man.....

silversilver

I am 95% sure it's the stock non vtec head. Valve cover even says 16 valve. Ill take a picture soon enough though.
What can go wrong with running a p05 for extended periods? I hardly drive the car as of now but i'm trying to start at a new job so i can get money to swap engines for something with more pep.
A friend is parting out an auto eg coupe that has a a p06 ecu but it's automatic, could i use that?
I checked his block stamp but forgot the exact number, i think it was a d15 or something but it has vtec, can't check till tomorrow. his car is 100% stock
Here's some pics(of his)




Ill try the topping off thing now, i just don't want to run out of gas while doing this. I really doubt a single cam can drain a 11.9 gallon tank in less than 50 miles but with the butchered swap jobs i've seen, one never really knows....

The H-T vin decoder was the one that told me i have a 94 automatic dx lol

silversilver

It's new from the store lol
Trust me, im not new to cars or anything. I've just only been with honda's for a few months now. I use to own only old muscle cars(nova's and mustangs) so all i know is carbs and mechanical stuff. Full tune up is on my list but im just trying to clear some confusion i have with these cars. Thought the ecu was throwing too much gas or something. No cel so i wouldnt know where to look. But if it was a nova or something i'd just check the metering rods/jets in the carb lol

It's a 5

Here's the vin with no serial number: 2HGEH2350RH

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

No USDM D15 has VTEC stock. I see the VTEC solenoid on your friend's head, but that, combined with the wrong ECU for a VTEC head, tells me there's something fucked up with his build, and it sure as **** is not "100% stock". I wouldn't recommend using it for donor parts unless you know exactly what you're getting into, which no offense, but you don't.

The D15B8 has smaller injectors. Because injectors run on pulse length and not "spit out this many cc's of fuel", smaller injectors on ECU that expects larger injectors means a leaned out motor, which risks a blown up motor. Larger injectors on an ECU that expects smaller injectors means a rich motor, which risks cylinder wash, and (you guessed it) a blown motor.

I can't blame you for worrying about running out of gas, but I seriously doubt you're using a full tank in 50 miles. If you were, I don't see how your engine would even be able to run. ****, I don't even think the injectors are capable of flowing that much fuel! Even if they were, though, you would have an extremely noticeable smell of unburnt fuel in your exhaust. With the car running, hold your hand in the exhaust, then sniff your palm. Does it smell like gas? Do not stick your face in the exhaust to smell it directly. Does the bumper have a big black mark above the exhaust?

silversilver

I take no offence with what you said. We all have to start somewhere. Before I didnt know what a spark plug was but now I can swap out a v8, install a new cam in a new engine and drop it in no problem. The mechanical experience is there but the knowledge of honda? Not so much

He told me it was stock so I just went with it because I had almost no idea to what I was looking at. What parts could I take from it anyways? The head? I could install the head correctly provided its a drop in swap and that I had all the torque measurements, with a bit of reading I might be able to wire in the vtec who knows. Run a chipped p28 and a base tune? ( alright im gettin side tracked now)

Thanks for the 411 on how the injectors "inject", glad to learn new things.
There is no carbon build up on my bumper and at idle it doesnt smell rich but tomorrow ill hand test it after the car warms up and is out of the cold start circuit
If I gun it at wot you can smell something. Car is straight piped with an 07 si muffler. Friends told me thats normal for a straight piped swapped car to smell something when you step on it or after a nice pull( same thing on my old f20b)

Edit: is that a no on the auto p06? Id assume id get a cel since it doesnt detect an auto trans and that the ecu is probs set up for different shift points

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

I mean, it's possible your friend doesn't know what he's talking about. Or you (or he) may have misread the block stamp. But with the P06 ECU, there's just a whole bunch of what-the-**** going on there that I wouldn't trust the car for parts. Sure, you could get the head and do a mini-me (VTEC head on a non-VTEC block), but there's a bit involved in that, and the power gains are as small as means nothing, so in my opinion, there's no point to it outside of "because VTEC y0".

You could run the ECU, but the CEL/D4 light might come on for solenoid lockup failure or something similar, since there's no autotragic transmission there. 92-95 is a little different from 96-00 (which I'm more familiar with in regards to transmissions), so I could be wrong on that. It wouldn't hurt to at least try to borrow his P06 and give it a shot for a week, see if that helps the running condition of the car.

A little bit of a smell for an uncatted car is fairly normal. For it to be using as much as your gauge says it is, you would have a noticeable (like, "I can't ******* breathe" noticeable) smell, though. Do the 50 mile test, and let us know how your gas mileage is. We can work on figuring out what's off from there on that front.

silversilver

Yeah ill check up all that tomorrow
I assumed the p06 would work ok because other than the clutch and vss the manual trans is free from all electrical graps as far as I know.
I breath normally in the car, it actually smells pretty nice and very pleseant in the car

I figured it would be pretty lame to try to swap heads unless I was going to dump some serious money into a single cam. A low comp b20 is 299 here anyways, later down the road I could swap one in, buy another long block and do a b16 head swap on it, swap that one in and still have a spare engine if I blow the b20v

First ill test the car with the p05 then jump on the p06 if its truely safe to run for awhile till I get stable income and grab a stick ecu

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Would you like me to point you towards the many, many, MANY references that all state that the D15B8 uses 180cc injectors, versus the D15B7's 235cc injectors? And pardon me for avoiding bringing up a VTEC-E engine when we're talking about VTEC vs. non-VTEC with someone who, it seems, is having a hard enough time telling the difference? Or do you want to try to confuse him even further?

TomCat39

CX only has the same injectors if it's CDM as it was the D15B7. In the USDM market, everything I've read, the CX (D15B8) did only come with the 180cc injectors like the VX (D15Z1), all others including the CDM CX were the 240cc injectors.

I only skimmed through the thread so I am not sure if OP is in the USA or Canada. I was thinking the OP is in the USA and imported a CDM CD/DX (virtually the same thing).

If it is a D15B7 engine, the P06 Automatic ECU can be used, you just have to remove a couple of resistors and solder in a jumper wire in place of one of them if I recall correctly and it turns it into a manual transmission ecu.

99% sure the P05 trying to run the D15B7 motor is why the gas mileage is so bad.

I will have to go look at my car but I'm pretty sure the CDM D15B7 uses a 4 wire O2 sensor, two wires are for the heater (heated o2 sensor).

As far as I understand, in the #4 downpipe or in the collector before the catalytic converter isn't going to make a major difference. Many relocate it to the collector but it will run just fine in the #4 down pipe. I didn't notice much change if any in my MPG between the two locations.

The pic you posted is the D16Z6 motor most likely and the spark plug tubes are on the wrong side of the valve cover to be a D15B7. As well as the distributor is different (TD42U vs TD41U).

Pretty much the only real thing you can easily use is the ECU as it is a direct plug in for your car if you have the D15B7 head and engine block. And that's assuming it's the P06 like you said.

Like NAR stated, you will have to fix up your O2 sensor with some additional wiring but that's about it. It's also your easiest fix out of all the options before you.

What I am struggling with is, if it's a CDM car, why is it only a 1 wire O2 sensor. The car came stock (CX and DX) with the d15B7. Canada never saw the D15B8. I can see someone being less than graceful and tossing in the P05 to get the car running, but why the O2 sensor change.....

Are you sure it's a CDM vehicle and not a USDM vehicle? What it almost sounds like to me is a USDM CX that had the D15B7 (USDM DX) motor swapped in without fixing up the ECU or the O2 sensor. I believe the D15B8 only used a 1 wire O2 sensor.

silversilver

Thats what i read, that the d15b8 only used 1 wire, it's really because of that+ what i've read that made me question lots of stuff on this car

Can't say 100% but the vin number on the title and car read canada and the car has a sticker around the ac condenser that reads something like "honda of canada"

again ill take detailed pictures of everything in the morning, now im really interested

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

It's entirely possible that the car was assembled in Canada for the US market. That would make it a USDM car.

silversilver

how would one confirm or deny this?

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Quite frankly, it wouldn't matter. You have all the hallmarks of a USDM car.

TomCat39

One thing you could try is take your VIN to your local Honda Dealer. They can tell you if the shell was USDM or CDM.

Also, just for grins and giggles, you may wish to verify the VIN on the dash is the same as the VIN on the firewall. The firewall din is pretty much center of the top of the firewall. A touch closer to the passenger side.

If they don't match, someone swapped the dashboard and you have bigger issues with the car.

silversilver

My local honda dealer is useless, i've been transfered left and right and the only info they gave me was that my car was clean as in no recalls needed...... lol
The vins match so im not super worried that its a stolen car or something
It's super cold but here are some engine bay pictures i took

Head



Block And trans



Engine bay




Random shots












O2 Sensor location









Random

TomCat39

PM9 casting is in line with the D15B7 head. Most B7's are a PM9 if I recall.

As for the Dealer, I would go in person not try by phone. Not really important though.

Unplug the O2 sensor and see if you see 4 contacts on the wire harness side of the plug.

If there is, it's the B7 harness already and I would then be questioning if you ever see the CEL come on for two seconds then go off when you put the key to the on (II) position.

silversilver

Will do, i had suspsions that the prev owner removed the cel light because it never turned on when i turned the key so i went and switched up the bullbs to one i knew worked last night.
Today i saw it go on when i turned the key but it was for a quick second since i was rushing to turn the car on because it was stupid cold outside. I unplugged the once and i saw it was just one contact but ill double check+ the engine light situation

I kinda want to know what trim i have anyways, the badge i found in the glove box moves me towards dx but if this was a cx then it would make sense because of the ecu and 1 wire o2

I also have no body moldings if that makes a difference, heard one trim package didnt come with it in CDM

edit: cel now comes on when i turn the key, doesnt come on when im driving so atleast the ecu doesnt see anything wrong?

89s1

I would also like to address the point he made about the vtec head being useless as far as power is concerned... A d16z6 head on a d15b7 block (especially with the superior inlet and exhaust manifolds will not only increase the compression ratio of the engine, it will also add better flowing ports, manifolds, and more camshaft.

Gains of 25-30 whp are not uncommon when doing a mini-me swap, so please, stick to giving info on subjects you are familiar with NotARaCist

The only injectors I can think of off the top of my head that are not ~240cc are d16y7, and d15b8 which are 190 and 180cc respectively and the h22 which came with 320cc's iirc.

TomCat39

This is only true if it's a USDM CX. The CDM CX (what I have) is the D15B7 with the 4 wire O2. Just double checked that fact when I got home, 1 green, 1 white and 2 black wires for the primary and only O2 sensor. I suspect your CEL light will always be on because of both the wrong ECU and the 1 wire O2 sensor.

This thread on d-series.org puts it in plain text what resistors your remove and which one you put the jumper wire on. I was hoping google would return a thread with pics but looks like I will have to pull out one of my back up P06 ecu's and take a couple of pictures for you. It's actually really easy.

I wouldn't normally defend NARC but I do believe he was keeping it as simple and easy as possible for the OP. A minime is far from simple nor is it cheap as it really should be tuned. So not only do you have to do the full head swap, but you have to get an ECU chipped and then take it to a tuner to have it tuned. The performance and power gains are nice, and it's not overly complicated, but it's not the simplest fix for the OP either. It looks like the easiest fix is a P06 ECU and the proper 4 wire O2 sensor and the car is back to normal parameters. Then a tune up (not the same as a Tune) and the OP is back in good MPG efficiency with a 102 HP 5 speed car.

Lets just clear this up, I checked and my statement is accurate which unfortunately counters slomofo's claim all the injectors are the same.

92-95 has 4 motors, the D15Z1 (VX), D15B8 (USDM CX), D15B7 (USDM DX, CDM CX/DX, All LX), and the D16Z6 (EX/SI)

So VX (D15Z1 Vtec-E 90hp)


USDM CX (D15B8 70hp)


USDM DX/LX CDM CX/DX/LX (D15B7 102hp)


USDM/CDM SI (D16Z6 Vtec 125hp)


As you can see the USDM CX and VX share the same reduce rate injectors while the DX and SI share the same higher flow rate injectors.

D15B8/D15Z1 is the lower rate 180-190cc injectors.
D15B7/D16Z6 is the higher rate 235-240cc injectors.

89s1

Nothing to clear up, I wasn't saying you were wrong. And as far as 92-95 canadian civic models go, he isn't either.

We never got either the d15b8 or d15z1 as canadian models, the existence of the z1 simply slipped my mind, I just group the vtec-e motors into the "d15b8" nametag in my brain.

You were right, but so was slomofo in relation to the topic at hand.

TomCat39

I thought for sure we got a VX in Canada (D15Z1 Vtec-e). Toronto Honda Auto Parts confirms there is a Canadian VX. Canada never saw the D15B8 though (Thankfully keeps the B7 parts abundant in the yards).



I was avoiding the 6th gen Y7 and Y8 simply because those injectors are OBD2 6th gen and they won't fit the 5th gen OBD1 harness without modification.