Go Back   Honda-Tech > Honda and Acura Model-Specific Technical Forums > Honda Civic/Del Sol (1992 - 2000)
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search


Welcome to Honda-Tech!
Welcome to Honda-Tech.com.

You are currently viewing our forums as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Honda-Tech community today!


Reply
 
 
 
submit to reddit
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-20-2010, 06:51 AM   #1
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 18
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default B16 Timing Belt Installation

Hello everyone,

(Please look at the Diagram, I've circles the parts in question)

I need guidance on the timing belt drive drive pulley and the washer(s) that go around it.

I have a B16 I'm currently rebuilding, and I'm at the point were I'm putting the timing belt on, but I have a specific question with the drive pulley.

The diagram I have show one washer on the back side. That is good, because I only have one washer. However, on other diagrams like on ALL DATA, shows two washers, one on each side?! Since I only have one washer, I'm assuming that one washer goes on the backside.

About the drive pulley, according to the diagrams, there are two kinds out there. One with a flange on one end, and another that is just flat from end to end. The one I have has a flange.

The diagram I've attached show the drive pulley with the flange, and that is pointed toward the block. However, the TDC mark on the pulley and the oil pump do not match when the flange is toward the block, but matches when you turn it around opposite from what the digram tell me to do.

So two question...

1. How many washers should I have, where do I put it, behind or in front of the pulley?
2. Is the flange on the pulley toward the block, or away?

I know this is the D series diagram. The Honda service manual I have for the Civic only shows this for the exploded view on the timing belt... so I'm assuming the D and B series engine ultimately share the same parts?
Attached Images
 
FrostByte27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 07:40 AM   #2
Honda-Tech Member
 
98greensi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: lively, ontario, canada
Posts: 468
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: B16 Timing Belt Installation

you should have 2 washers this is what keeps the timing belt aligned. if you have an obd2 motor the outer washer will look like that one with the teeth this is for the crank sensor. i can't remember what the obd1 washer looks like but u should have 2 washers that kind of do this )( with the timing belt between them
98greensi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 07:53 AM   #3
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 18
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: B16 Timing Belt Installation

Thanks for the reply. Good info!

It is a OBD2 engine, coming off a 2000 Si. Yeah, the other diagram showed the washer was the same. And the concave going a certain direction.

If I only had one washer, then why the flange on the drive pulley. It seems that is there to hold the timing belt on, to take the place of the 'second' washer. I've attached a picture of the flange on the drive pulley I have.
Attached Images
 
FrostByte27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 08:08 AM   #4
Honda-Tech Member
 
dpetro1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tracys Landing, MD
Posts: 4,200
iTrader Rating: (0)
b16civiccx
Send a message via AIM to dpetro1
Default Re: B16 Timing Belt Installation

from this factory diagram it looks like your setup is the one washer (goes on the inside) and then the flange on the pulley goes outside.
Click the image to open in full size.

so basically everything you posted looks correct to me but it looks like you need to flip the pulley around with the flange outside

edit: actually #11 in that pic is no longer available from honda so the flanged pulley must have replaced it at some point
dpetro1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 08:16 AM   #5
Honda-Tech Member
 
DVDr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Coldnorth, on, canada
Posts: 982
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: B16 Timing Belt Installation

As stated above, I did timming belt on a b16a2 ( obd2 off a civic Si ) and It had the same setup as yours .

Same as # 12 and 13 in the above diagram.

Only thing is the picture you posted has the teethed pulley facing the wrong side.
DVDr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 08:34 AM   #6
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 18
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: B16 Timing Belt Installation

The "dpetro1" diagram does show again that the flange is away from the block. Just like my diagram shows.

The TDC mark on the drive pulley is on the non-flange side. I matched the TDC markings perfectly with the oil pump and drive pulley with the flange toward the block with Piston 1 at TDC! The TDC markings will not line up with the flange away from the block. So theoretically the diagram is showing the pulley (part #12) to be backwards?

The diagram I just attached for TDC marks shows the marking visible ... so the flange has to be toward the block?!

All, thank you for you help thus far. You're input if invaluable!!!!
Attached Images
 
FrostByte27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 09:43 AM   #7
Honda-Tech Member
 
dpetro1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tracys Landing, MD
Posts: 4,200
iTrader Rating: (0)
b16civiccx
Send a message via AIM to dpetro1
Default Re: B16 Timing Belt Installation

i understand what you are saying but the pulley needs to be installed like the diagrams show to hold the belt on. i guess im not really understanding why you cant line up the mark if you flip the pulley
dpetro1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 09:52 AM   #8
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 18
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: B16 Timing Belt Installation

I see what you are saying... but I'm thinking of it this way. Piston 1 is TDC. The drive pulley has a key, so it can only go on one way.

When the flange is toward the block, the marks line up. But drive pulley is on backwards from diagram.

If the flange is away like the diagrams says it goes, the pulley mark is about 10 degrees to the right of the oil pump mark when the crank is in the same position. So from here, I guess I could just install the belt and pray. But if anything goes wrong, I'm starting all over.
FrostByte27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 09:54 AM   #9
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 18
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: B16 Timing Belt Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVDr View Post
As stated above, I did timming belt on a b16a2 ( obd2 off a civic Si ) and It had the same setup as yours .

Same as # 12 and 13 in the above diagram.

Only thing is the picture you posted has the teethed pulley facing the wrong side.
DVDr, do you have any install pics of your timing belt?
FrostByte27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 10:09 AM   #10
Honda-Tech Member
 
dpetro1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tracys Landing, MD
Posts: 4,200
iTrader Rating: (0)
b16civiccx
Send a message via AIM to dpetro1
Default Re: B16 Timing Belt Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrostByte27 View Post
I see what you are saying... but I'm thinking of it this way. Piston 1 is TDC. The drive pulley has a key, so it can only go on one way.

When the flange is toward the block, the marks line up. But drive pulley is on backwards from diagram.

If the flange is away like the diagrams says it goes, the pulley mark is about 10 degrees to the right of the oil pump mark when the crank is in the same position. So from here, I guess I could just install the belt and pray. But if anything goes wrong, I'm starting all over.
my only question would be, how do you know piston 1 is at tdc? are you using a screwdriver on top of the piston or something? 10* is minimal and might be hard to eye-ball. i would go by the pulley and oil pump marks
dpetro1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 10:20 AM   #11
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 18
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: B16 Timing Belt Installation

Yeah, I did figure out TPC with a screwdriver on Piston 1. The mark is seriously off when the flange is away from the block. In relation to a clock, the oil pump mark is 11, the mark on the pulley is about 1 or 2. So yeah, that would be way more than 10 degrees.

I find it very ironic with piston 1 TDC, and the lining up with the marks, with the drive pulley backwards to the diagram.
FrostByte27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 10:41 AM   #12
Honda-Tech Member
 
dpetro1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tracys Landing, MD
Posts: 4,200
iTrader Rating: (0)
b16civiccx
Send a message via AIM to dpetro1
Default Re: B16 Timing Belt Installation

yeah im not sure what else to say. does it not have anything that looks like this?...
Click the image to open in full size.

can you take more detailed pics of whats going on with your pulley?
dpetro1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 11:07 AM   #13
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 18
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: B16 Timing Belt Installation

I can take a closer picture... but I'll have to do that tonight. The picture you have is the general idea. Except my oil pump mark is more to the left side from center, and the pulley mark is a straight line engraving.

And, get this. The oil pump mark is always showing around 1 o'clock on the diagrams, when mine is around 11 o'clock! So if the flange is AWAY the block (like the diagrams show), the marking on the pulley would line up. But we all know there is only one way to put the oil pump on!

I'm going to take some pictures to show soon... stay tuned.
FrostByte27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2010, 05:21 AM   #14
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 18
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: B16 Timing Belt Installation

I think I got it. My picture shows how it should go on. The reason I know this now is because the CKS sensor, once mounted is perfectly aligned with the teeth of the flange on the timing belt drive pulley.

The sensor sits in the craves that you see circled.

According to the diagrams, it shows the drive pulley being backwards. Also, the TDC mark on the oil pump and CKS sensor are on the left (exhaust side), not the right.
Attached Images
  
FrostByte27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2010, 05:31 AM   #15
Honda-Tech Member
 
dpetro1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tracys Landing, MD
Posts: 4,200
iTrader Rating: (0)
b16civiccx
Send a message via AIM to dpetro1
Default Re: B16 Timing Belt Installation

well im sure you are probably good. are you positive that there arent any markings on the actual flange of the pulley like the pic i posted? or is the only mark the one you circled?
dpetro1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2010, 05:46 AM   #16
Honda-Tech Member
 
EFjoe91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bucks
Posts: 426
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: B16 Timing Belt Installation

heythe first diagram looks like a D15/D16 Single cam engine. I would not reccomend going by that schematic.

And Most of these guys just "guided" me through my major malfunction which was a simmilar posting in the TECH forum. Your engine appears to be slightly diffrent than mine, being that i have a OBD 1 and your is OBD2 i can clearly see diffrence already in these photos. My Oil pump cam gear sprocket is slightly cocked to the left as well. Looks like by Deptrol posting of pics, The cam sprocket with teeth is on backwards, Im guessing this is correct, being that i have the Other version which is depicted by just Conical seated washer,Sprocket,Conical seated washer. The one person had it correct with the )( part it has a slight lip ( i actually cleaned and polished mine) saw how it held them in place and looked like the little amount of rubber or dirt build up on it would create a rub on side of belt. Just cleaned wit laquer and a new terry cloth to bring up shiny. back to w.e i would say yea there is 2 ways to install. One with a crank sensor and one with out. Mine does not have big bulky mechanical thing to left. my crank mark is to left.

Looks to me like the diagram is correct. It would make sence that it holds the belt on. Hope it all works out and what not.
EFjoe91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2010, 05:56 AM   #17
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 18
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: B16 Timing Belt Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpetro1 View Post
well im sure you are probably good. are you positive that there arent any markings on the actual flange of the pulley like the pic i posted? or is the only mark the one you circled?
There are no markings on the flange side of the drive pulley. That's what drove me to question the reassembly. The only mark on the pulley the one I circled.

And the old oil pump is identical to the new one, so I know the TDC mark hasn't moved.

Thank you for all your help guys! I hope this post helps others in the future. The Honda manual is nice, but you always have to question its integrity.

Since I'm only this far on the rebuild... I'm sure I'll be back with other weird *** questions. Thanks again!
FrostByte27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2010, 06:03 AM   #18
Honda-Tech Member
 
dpetro1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Tracys Landing, MD
Posts: 4,200
iTrader Rating: (0)
b16civiccx
Send a message via AIM to dpetro1
Default Re: B16 Timing Belt Installation

ok you are not crazy!!! found this factory diagram for b16 del sol, it shows three timing pulley combinations
Click the image to open in full size.
looks like you have had it correct the whole time. hope this helps ease your mind a bit
dpetro1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2010, 06:12 AM   #19
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 18
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: B16 Timing Belt Installation

Wow! This is the first diagram I've seen with the flange toward the block! This reassures me a little more! Thank you for the post!
FrostByte27 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
 
submit to reddit
Reply

Tags
b16, b16a, belt, civic, diagram, drive, honda, interchange, marks, pilot, piston, points, pulley, series, timing

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Timing belt walk (please help!!) CptHMCrunch Honda Prelude 5 07-04-2014 04:38 PM
D16Z6 A/C tensioner pulley problems! PatrickGSR94 Honda Civic/Del Sol (1992 - 2000) 3 06-27-2013 07:03 AM
Write Up / How To - H22 H22a H-series Cam Camshaft Install (search friendly) mgags7 Honda Prelude 97 02-20-2011 01:19 PM
D16 Crank Bolt? Help ASAP Pls BobbyRodriguez Welding/Fabrication 5 01-08-2011 11:31 PM
D16Z6 A/C tensioner pulley problem! PatrickGSR94 Tech/Misc 3 02-26-2007 04:38 AM



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:02 AM.



2014 Copyright, InternetBrands Inc.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Honda and the Honda marquee are registered trademarks of the American Honda Motor Company, Inc. Neither American Honda Motor Company nor its subsidiaries or affiliates shall bear any responsibility for Honda-Tech.com content, comments, or advertising. Honda-Tech.com is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Company in any way. American Honda Motor Company does not sponsor, support, or endorse Honda-Tech.com in any way. Copyright/trademark/sales mark infringements are not intended or implied.
Emails & Contact Details