93_civic_hatch

hey anyone know what wire i need to splice into on a 4wire o2 sensor so i can hook up me a/f gauge...?

97ekb18b

i just did this and its the white wire

miguel329

how accurate is it without a wideband?

Frozen E

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by miguel329 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how accurate is it without a wideband?</TD></TR></TABLE>

About as accurate as a string of christmas tree lights.

Blk00EJ8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IslandSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">About as accurate as a string of christmas tree lights.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ditto. All it is is a glorified voltmeter... would you know what your AFR is if the sensor reading is 3.8 volts? Nope? Yea, you wouldn't.

97ekb18b

well i actually think they work great i had my old car running off a a/f gauge running 24 psi tuned ecu bigger injectors, bigger pump, and full green never once did i have a problem, and i beat her everyday, i think that wide bands are strictly for hardcore dyno tuners, i probable will never buy a wideband because ive never had a motor blow using a a/f gauge.

CarbonizedDX

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 97ekb18b &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well i actually think they work great i had my old car running off a a/f gauge running 24 psi tuned ecu bigger injectors, bigger pump, and full green never once did i have a problem, and i beat her everyday, i think that wide bands are strictly for hardcore dyno tuners, i probable will never buy a wideband because ive never had a motor blow using a a/f gauge. </TD></TR></TABLE>

From what I saw with my ex's car and her single wire O2 air/fuel gauge showed usable information only when accelerating thus putting air pressure on the sensor to have it read something... So I'd think with having boost you're supply the O2 sensor with enough air pressure to keep it constantly feedin back information...

The funny part about widebands (least the AEM one I installed in my buddies integra) it states that it's not ment to be used in a daily driving app, and that constant use could burn out the O2 sensor faster, that it is best to remove it when not tuning...

Blk00EJ8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 97ekb18b &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well i actually think they work great i had my old car running off a a/f gauge running 24 psi tuned ecu bigger injectors, bigger pump, and full green never once did i have a problem, and i beat her everyday, i think that wide bands are strictly for hardcore dyno tuners, i probable will never buy a wideband because ive never had a motor blow using a a/f gauge. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You must have been running overly rich which protected the motor and didn't fully make use of that 24 PSI being fed in... speaking of which, you've run 24 lbs of boost and you don't consider that sufficient to warrant a wideband tune? Sheesh... I'd wideband tune 8 lbs... a B18C costs too much to blow...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CarbonizedDX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The funny part about widebands (least the AEM one I installed in my buddies integra) it states that it's not ment to be used in a daily driving app, and that constant use could burn out the O2 sensor faster, that it is best to remove it when not tuning...</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's true with any O2 sensor... they wear out, and even more so under non-stoich conditions. A narrow band will bounce back and forth because the ECU is running rich-lean-rich all the time for economy. WOT will show it pegged toward rich because it's running closed loop. You still have no idea what AFR it's running at though... they're just arbitrary hash marks and varying colored LEDs on an unlabeled dial.

97ekb18b

well the a/f gauge is only ment to read a/f ratios under acceleration, thus why it goes lean on decel and rich on accel, the wideband reads a/f ratios constently, so u can tune for a over all a/f ratio, when i would turn the boost up or down on my old car, all i would do is make slight adjustment, turn the boost down some then the fuel and watch the gauge while accelerating, and making sure it stayed full green under boost, worked great and NEVER hurt a thing, i believe it kept my engine alive the most.

97ekb18b

[QUOTE=Blk00EJ8]

You must have been running overly rich which protected the motor and didn't fully make use of that 24 PSI being fed in... speaking of which, you've run 24 lbs of boost and you don't consider that sufficient to warrant a wideband tune? Sheesh... I'd wideband tune 8 lbs... a B18C costs too much to blow...

hehe i was running low 11's on this setup and would drive it home, call me cheap or crazy but i find the a/f gauge most affective and easiest to use, and if i wasnt giving it enough fuel it was noticeable, under acceleration with more boost and not enought fuel the a/f gauge would read closer to the middle, then i would up the fuel and get it back into the full green, they are a decent tunable source in my eyes, but to each is there own

97ekb18b

oh and i might add this was on 93 oct, with stock ignition system, all it had a was a tuned ecu, the injectors, fpr, bigger pump, and alot of boost.

CarbonizedDX

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blk00EJ8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">WOT will show it pegged toward rich because it's running closed loop. You still have no idea what AFR it's running at though... they're just arbitrary hash marks and varying colored LEDs on an unlabeled dial.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I never said standard a/f gauges showed accurately, I mirly was commenting/speculating on 97ek's post with a boosted motor.
Any car on WOT will go rich, open or closed loop. My ex's car used a single wire O2 so it never went from open to closed loop (no heater wires or return signal to the ecu like the 4 wire O2's) on the primary O2 sensor...

Blk00EJ8

Closed loop has to do with the ECU, not the O2 sensor. It pegs on rich when in closed loop because the ECU is just injecting fuel and not caring about the resulting AFR.

And when I said "you" I didn't mean you specifically; I meant the driver.

93_civic_hatch

wow i opend a can of worms lol... so splicing intothe o2 is the only way to hook it up or can i hook it up another way like into the ecu harness.... if so what way works best...?

97ekb18b

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CarbonizedDX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I never said standard a/f gauges showed accurately, I mirly was commenting/speculating on 97ek's post with a boosted motor.
Any car on WOT will go rich, open or closed loop. My ex's car used a single wire O2 so it never went from open to closed loop (no heater wires or return signal to the ecu like the 4 wire O2's) on the primary O2 sensor...</TD></TR></TABLE>

but it will only show full rich if the motor is getting enought fuel, if its going lean under boost the a/f gauge will show it, the lights will begin to creep to the stoich bars instead of the rich, and so on so forth.

chimmike

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93_civic_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> wow i opend a can of worms lol... so splicing intothe o2 is the only way to hook it up or can i hook it up another way like into the ecu harness.... if so what way works best...?</TD></TR></TABLE>

what they're saying is, if you want a rice light show, go for it, otherwise, don't waste your time or money.

twentymxtwo

white wire

Blk00EJ8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 97ekb18b &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but it will only show full rich if the motor is getting enought fuel, if its going lean under boost the a/f gauge will show it, the lights will begin to creep to the stoich bars instead of the rich, and so on so forth.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

But that's exactly my point, stated right there... you said the "stoich bars." Nothing says that the point at which a "stoich" LED on the gauge lighting up is actually a stoich AFR. It's just some arbitrary color the maker of the gauge put on there to make it go from a "dangerous red" to a "stoich yellow or orange" to a "rich green" sweep. They are all arbitrary colors that have no real meaning. And btw, "full rich" is when the engine is getting too much fuel... not just enough.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chimmike &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what they're saying is, if you want a rice light show, go for it, otherwise, don't waste your time or money.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, exactly, thank you.

Blk00EJ8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93_civic_hatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> wow i opend a can of worms lol... so splicing intothe o2 is the only way to hook it up or can i hook it up another way like into the ecu harness.... if so what way works best...?</TD></TR></TABLE>

You can splice it anywhere... the wire on the sensor simply runs to the ECU clip. It doesn't matter where. Though technically, closer to the ECU would be more representative of what the ECU sees because of the voltage potential loss created by the wire's internal resistance.

93_civic_hatch

lol i understand what thay r sayin i just think it is funny that it arose to such a heated battle... anyway i ended up with the gauge cause it was gonna b thrown away so i figured what the hec ill put it in... i think it is a good montering tool and thats it in no way is it a tuning tool.. or i wouldnt use it as one... so thanks for the info... once again h/t comes to the rescue...

Blk00EJ8

Honestly, I'm not heated at all on the subject, believe it or not I mean, honestly, I don't care what one installs in one's own car. I really don't care what one tunes with either since I don't have to flip the bill for anything. I just don't want other people to get the impression that a narrow band gauge can and should be used for any kind of tuning, contrary to what was said already.

chimmike

if you can't use it for tuning, it's not a monitoring tool either.

gsrhatch2356

I agree with not using a narrow band for tunning but at the same time the gauge is valuable information for the track. lets say maybe a fuel filter starts to get clogged and fuel pressure drops ultimatly running it lean and melting rings and pistons. the narrow band will see that and you can shut it down before it gets to bad or screws anything up. and closed loop is when the vehicle is at operating temp and 02 starts to oscillate. only when you get to a certain throttle percentage do you go to open loop and fuel trim is based off of the fuel map instead of the 02 sensor.

chimmike

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gsrhatch2356 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I agree with not using a narrow band for tunning but at the same time the gauge is valuable information for the track. lets say maybe a fuel filter starts to get clogged and fuel pressure drops ultimatly running it lean and melting rings and pistons. the narrow band will see that and you can shut it down before it gets to bad or screws anything up. and closed loop is when the vehicle is at operating temp and 02 starts to oscillate. only when you get to a certain throttle percentage do you go to open loop and fuel trim is based off of the fuel map instead of the 02 sensor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

sorry, but I disagree. EGT's will tell you this better, if you don't have a wideband.

narrowband sensors are useless for monitoring and tuning.

gsrhatch2356

How would a egt better tell lean rich condition? I understand that you would be able to tell or see it on the egt but for a sensor that is to measure temp not a\f ratio it cant show you as close or as soon as the problem occurs. I know a lean condition would cause excessive temps but it would take a little bit for the temp to rise and may take to long for the egt to register a problem. where even if it is not completly accruate at least a narrow band can show you up to the sec data.