LilLowEK

Hi all,

I've been driving and working on EKs for a while now, but lately my daily driver has been acting weird at times. Sometimes once the car comes to operating temperature, is shut off for 30 minutes, and attempted to start again it will just crank. The only way I can get it to turn over and run is if I feather the gas while cranking. During this process the motor jumps around a bit, sputters, and makes off noises which sound to be related to the intake. I'm assuming that has to do with feathering the gas. Once it starts it revs fine until I try to put a load on the engine. The only way I can get it to move when this happens is practically a neutral slam at 1,500 RPMs.

This happened about 400 miles ago. I blamed bad gas and put in some gas treatment. It was fine until just recently. Just yesterday I was driving the car, took a left turn, and it started to sputter on me. It cleared up, but I took the car back home where it did leave me sit in the road. About 15 seconds of cranking, feathering the gas, and a neutral slam later the car got me home. It seems once you get it running it's fine. No issues at WOT and vtec engages fine.

I'm not certain if this might be the fuel pump going out, TPS, rotor button, etc. The fuel pump primes every time I put the key on the on position. Has anyone seen anything similar to this to get me some direction before I start replacing things? I'm pretty comfortable working on these cars. I swapped an LS motor into my 96 Civic Hatch, did an auto to manual conversion on my friends, and even a mini me swap on my hatch prior to the LS. I'm pretty much getting at I'm comfortable on making any repair. I just rather get some direction prior to start blindly replacing parts.

1998 Honda Civic EX Sedan
Stock D16y8 with 18x,xxx miles
Replaced plugs, wires, timing belt, water pump, timing tensioner about 8,000 miles ago
Automatic
No check engine lights (unfortunately)


***** UPDATE - 10/27/2015 *****

I just wanted to do some follow up on this thread in the event others find it in the future. Apparently this issue was spark related. I went to my spare mini-me motor to swap distributor caps. Upon doing so I snapped a bolt off. I removed the distributor to drill it out. Once complete I decided to just replace the entire distributor . Somehow I ended up dropping it and breaking the plastic on the inside piece. I'm not too sure what this was but I replaced it with the one from the distributor on the car I was working on. At this point I have a working distributor housing, rotor button, cap, and that electronic piece from the original car. Put it together, double checked timing with the light gun, and it's been fine sense. I only drive the car about 30 miles a week, if that, so I didn't want to report back until I had some miles on it. The car hasn't acted up at all. There wasn't any shaft play or anything on the original dizzy, but honestly the rotor button looked like it had seen better days. It might have been as simple as a rotor button and cap.

Thanks to all those that have helped and provided assistance and guidance!

Former User

Does the CEL work?

Sounds like a possible low idle or ECT sensor issue. Clean the IACV and Ohm test the ECT sensor.

LilLowEK

Thank you for the reply. I'm 99% sure the CEL for the check engine light works. I'll check that today when I put the key in the on position. I actually cleaned the IACV a few weeks ago with carb cleaner. Mainly because I cleaned my buddies after a mini me swap and his was absolutely filthy.

I'd think anything sensor related would throw a code, that's what's been throwing me off. Will confirm weather the CEL works in a few minutes.

LilLowEK

I just confirmed the CEL is working fine. I'd also like to note that I recently changed out the ECU due to a faulty barometer sensor. This problem initially was in January of this year. That's when I purchased the gas treatment. The ECU was replaced with a used ECU in April of this year.

I moved into a full time work from home position so the car might get an average of 50 miles a week, if that.

Former User

Not all issues rise to the threshold required to throw a CEL code.

Former User

Have you checked for stored codes?

Did you Ohm test the ECT sensor?

LilLowEK

I haven't had an opportunity to check the ohms or stored codes. I don't have an OBD2 code reader. I usually just use the paperclip trick once a code is present.

To be honest, my volt meter skills aren't the best. I'll study up on that and look over how to check the ohms of that sensor in the Honda factory service manual. I assume it should be in there!

Anything else you can think of that I should go over when time permits?

Former User

This^ works fine.

Yep

LilLowEK

Thanks! So I was doing some reading in the service manual. It looks like at normal operating temperature (176-200 degrees F) the ohms should read around .4 or .3. I assume these things could be intermittent, and the only real way of knowing is to test it when the car is acting up? I'll test it either way and report back. It appears the sensor is around 25 bucks. According to what the sensor does it sounds like this very well could be the problem.

For anyone reading this thread in the future, below is what the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) does.

ECT - The ECT Sensor converts coolant temperature into voltage and signals the ECM/PCM. The sensor is a thermistor whose internal resistance changes with coolant temperature. The ECM/PCM uses the voltage signals from the ECT sensor to determine the amount of injected fuel.

RonJ@HT, your rapid responses gave me the direction I need. Sure beats replacing plugs, wires, dizzy cap, rotor button, fuel filter, etc - only to have the same problem!

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

ronj is a scientist, always on point with advice. in regards to sensors not always causing codes- happens quite a bit. i just did a 99 accord with hesitation/bucking issues, like bad enough to slam you around in the car. the issue? primary o2 sensor. no codes stored or pending with the faulty sensor in the car.

LilLowEK

Well, today I finally had an opportunity to check the ECT sensor. I started the car, let it run, and left for a bit. Instead of the car being at operating temperature it wasn't running. I attempted to start it and it was doing the same thing it's been doing. After many cranks, feathering gas, and finally letting it sit for a while - it started. Luckily I was able to capture some video as it may help the diagnosis. The video recording is after it was behaving poorly, and after a while of attempting to get it started. As you will see it runs alright at idle, it even runs okay when you are easy on the gas, but as soon as you give it gas like if you were pulling out at an intersection it just seems to starve for fuel.

Same video as in the first post.

You can probably hear the intake at times. It's a bit louder as it's a cheap cone filter as the original intake box was damaged due to a small front end collision from the previous owner several years ago.

I did manage to get the car to idle long enough to get the fan to kick on twice. I unplugged the ECT sensor, checked the reading, and it was coming up as .2. My prediction was it should be around .25 or .3. I'm not too sure where to go with this, but hoping you guys can take a minute to view the video.

Former User

0.2 what? What scale?

The reading should have been 200-400 Ohms.

LilLowEK

Well, the factory secure manual just had from .1 to 20. I set thr ohm meter to 200 when I performed the test.

Perhaps I set the reader incorrectly?

Former User

Post pic of manual page showing this^ reading as being spec.

Post pic of your multimeter at this^ setting.

LilLowEK

I can get the page in the morning. Here is a part of it.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q71/GhostAccord/Odds-n-sodds/ECT-sensor-voltage.jpg

Former User

Note that the Y-axis scale in the diagram is kilo-Ohms not Ohms. With the engine fully warmed up, the reading should be 200-400 Ohms. If your reading was Ohms, which seems likely, then the ECT sensor is toast.

LilLowEK

Thanks for the reply. I just grabbed a quick screenshot of the cheap harbor freight multi-meter I have. I have the probes configured as in this photo. I circiled what setting I used in blue. The probes zeroed out on this setting when touched together prior to testing.

Thanks for taking the time to review this information with me. I could easily have performed the test incorrectly. Also, the sensor I tested was up front near the radiator fan, below the top radiator hose on the block.

Former User

Multimeter in picture is not set to read Ohms at all. Also, you must set the multimeter at the 200-Ohm scale not the 200,000-Ohm (200K) scale.

LilLowEK

Thanks. Yeah that was just a random image I found online, but it's the same product I'm using. I circled in Blue pen what I was using. I was using the lower left section outlined in green. I was however using the 200k, not the 200. If I measure it again with the 200 setting should it be around .2-.3 as in the manual I posted, or at your previous recommendation?

Former User

LilLowEK

Thank you for your patience! Will report back when I do the test again on the proper ohm setting!

LilLowEK

Hi there! I finally got a chance to run the test again yesterday. I set the multimeter to 200 ohms. Once the car got to normal operating temperature I unplugged the sensor, hooked up two wires to it, and checked it. It would go from 184-194 and then to 1. I then set he multimeter to 2000, performed the test again, and it would fluctuate from 184-205.

LilLowEK

With these results and the cars behavior, would you guys recommend changing that sensor?

Former User

I would try replacing the ECT sensor. Then go from there.

LilLowEK

Thanks! Once I get it in there and some miles on it I'll report back!