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I am completely at a loss as to why my 97 civic lx is having a crank, no start problem. I installed a new radio in my car and when I started my car it started up and then died within 5 seconds. From then on its been cranking but won't start. I am working under the impression that it is an electrical issue but there is a chance that it was just coincidental that my car doesn't start after the radio install.
My troubleshooting has been as follows.
0). Didn't want to change all my numbers so I'm starting at zero now, but there are no dash lights out of the ordinary.
1). Took out the new radio and replaced it with the honda radio.
2). Checked fuses. I didn't disconnect the negative terminal of my battery during the install so this seemed most likely. They all seemed to be in order (I am not sure about checking relays as I don't really know how and I can't think of any that would stop the car from starting.)
3). My next step was to look at the distributor and make sure I'm getting a spark. My distributor cap and rotor looked fine (not corroded) so I moved on to the ignition coil. I checked the resistance on my ignition coil between terminal A and B and that was ok but the resistance between A and the secondary winding terminal was like 50kOhms which is a lot over the acceptable range.
4). Using a ignition spark tester I found that I have a orangeish spark which indicates a weak spark. Would this be because the ignition coils resistance is high? Also would a weak spark potentially cause my car not to start?
5). I checked my fuel input by taking off the banjo bolt on the fuel filter and turning my car on. Probably not the best test, but it showed that the fuel was making it past the fuel filter and on to the engine.
6). I understand a bad timing belt could also be the cause of the no start, but is there anyway to check it to see if it is still good?
Well thats about all I've done so far and I am completely at a loss. I was hoping to not replace anything until I have a good idea what the problem is, but it looks like if I can't come up with anything in a few days it may have to go to a mechanic .
Have I looked over anything important or do you have any ideas what else I can try?
First off, thank you. Your post is a shining example of what we like to see from new members here, and a lot of people could use to follow your example.
It sounds like you've already narrowed down your problem to your ignition coil. If you have a friend with a 96-98 Civic, borrow their distributor and see if your car starts with it. If not, replace the coil - that sounds like it's the root of your problem. Orange spark most definitely can stop the car from starting.
As for point 6, timing is easy to check. There's a timing mark on the crank pulley (actually four marks - you want the one that stands away from the other three), and a timing mark on your cam gear. Rotate the engine by hand until the crank pulley mark lines up, and see if the cam gear mark lines up. Make sure to only rotate the engine in the direction of operation - counterclockwise as you're staring at the crank pulley. Rotating the opposite direction can damage timing components.
First off, thank you. Your post is a shining example of what we like to see from new members here, and a lot of people could use to follow your example.
Wow, I wasn't expecting such quick, helpful, and polite replies. I think I'm going to like this place
I'm afraid I don't have any friends with the same year/model that would let me borrow their distributor. My good friends drive domestics (a couple mustangs, some jeeps, and some other large trucks) so I'm the odd one out a little bit, but thats not necessarily a bad thing. I guess I still have a couple of conceptual issues that I haven't quite got down and maybe you guys could help clear those up.
1). I agree it seems like the problem points to the ignition coil, but would this be something that would fail because of the new radio install?
2). If I get any spark weak or strong that means my issue should not be with a fuse or relay, correct?
3). I haven't measured any resistance values off of the ICM could that also be a potential problem?
Also in regards to checking the timing, that is an area of the car I am pretty unfamiliar with, do you think there is much of a chance that that would be the problem? I am on holiday break from college and work right now so I don't mind learning what to do but I feel like the problem is most likely not mechanical.
It's doubtful that the timing is your issue, but it's relatively easy and quick to check (30 minutes and basic hand tools), so if you're curious about it, it wouldn't hurt to give it a look. The radio thing just sounds like coincidence. I doubt a fuse or relay is causing your problem - we're talking 1000 to 1 chances on that.
The FSM says, diagnostically, that after your tests, you should replace the coil. Start there, and if it doesn't solve the problem, we can work from there.
Bad news....I retested the resistance on a multimeter from this century (I was using my dads old one) and got a reading of 15.5kOhms, well withing the 12.8-19.2k range and the reading between the two terminals was appropriate too.
I plan to take a look at the ignition control module tomorrow morning and run it through the test in the service manual. I'll report back then, in the meantime I'd love to know if you have any other ideas?
Well ****, there goes that idea. An orange spark definitely points to an issue with the distributor, though. While you're testing the ICM, also check all of your grounds, and make sure they are tight and corrosion-free. When you changed the stereo, did you disconnect the battery? You may have accidentally loosened or damaged a ground wire.
I had an issue were the spade terminals would vibrate loose inside the distributor and cause my car to stall out check the spade terminals on the ICM and on the coil also make sure none of the wires are pinched to a point we're it causes them to break, as far as timing pop off your valve cover and rotate the crank counter clockwise and make sure the timing marks on the cam and crank line up this would also let you see your timing belt replace it if its frayed, cracked, or badly worn also make sure the belt is actually spinning the cam when you rotate the crank
3). My next step was to look at the distributor and make sure I'm getting a spark...I checked the resistance on my ignition coil between terminal A and B and that was ok
Post the number for this^ measurement after subtracting the internal resistance of your meter.
Ok, so a quick update before I answer the individual posts. I took my coil and ICM into autozone for testing and said my coil was fine but my ICM failed their test. So I bought a new ICM and just installed it into my car. Still have the same weak spark...so any more ideas?
Originally Posted by NotARacist
Well ****, there goes that idea. An orange spark definitely points to an issue with the distributor, though. While you're testing the ICM, also check all of your grounds, and make sure they are tight and corrosion-free. When you changed the stereo, did you disconnect the battery? You may have accidentally loosened or damaged a ground wire.
Battery was connected during the entire process, upon reflection probably not a great idea but I don't always have great ideas. When you say check all of my grounds, what exactly do you mean? I've read a few sites explanations but I haven't been able to really figure out what I need to do.
Originally Posted by RonJ@HT
Post the number for this^ measurement after subtracting the internal resistance of your meter.
The multimeter alternated between .7 and .8 ohms which is mostly within the .63-.77 range. But since it did spend some time on .8 ohms as well, please let me know if you think it is not working properly.
Originally Posted by ArsonistsMind
I had an issue were the spade terminals would vibrate loose inside the distributor and cause my car to stall out check the spade terminals on the ICM and on the coil also make sure none of the wires are pinched to a point we're it causes them to break
Given that the spades were so hard to get off when I took out my ICM, I don't think that was the issue. But thanks for suggestion!
The multimeter alternated between .7 and .8 ohms which is mostly within the .63-.77 range. But since it did spend some time on .8 ohms as well, please let me know if you think it is not working properly.
Click the Spark link in my signature. You must subtract the internal resistance of your meter from the reading.
Click the Spark link in my signature. You must subtract the internal resistance of your meter from the reading.
I haven't finished reading your link yet, but it looks great, my meter at home measured the resistance between the terminals at .9-1.0 fluctuating between the two. The internal resistance is .3 so I'm looking at .6-.7ohms after the math.
I haven't finished reading your link yet, but it looks great, my meter at home measured the resistance between the terminals at .9-1.0 fluctuating between the two. The internal resistance is .3 so I'm looking at .6-.7ohms after the math.
Are your two Ohm tests done with the coil removed from the car and warmed to room temp in your house?
Blk/Yel wire has 11.45 V which is really close to battery voltage of 11.5 when my car is on. Wht/Blu is actually also a Yel/Grn wire on my car, so to double check, it is the wire that runs from the ICM to the B(-) terminal of my coil? If so, I did not read any voltage in that wire but I'm also not sure why there should be voltage in that one. It seems like if you disconnect the wires from the ICM unless there is another voltage source to the ignition coil then there shouldn't be voltage in the wire...but I could be dead wrong so feel free to correct me.
See diagram I posted above and below. Voltages are measured from the indicated wires disconnected from the ICM. There should be both a Wht/Blu and Yel/Grn wire attached to the ICM. Post pictures. The Wht/Blu wire should have similar voltage as the Blk/Yel wire. The Yel/Grn wire should have no voltage.
See diagram I posted above and below. Voltages are measured from the indicated wires disconnected from the ICM. There should be both a Wht/Blu and Yel/Grn wire attached to the ICM. Post pictures. The Wht/Blu wire should have similar voltage as the Blk/Yel wire. The Yel/Grn wire should have no voltage.
Here's a pic of the ICM, I labeled the wires based on what colors they actually are, yel/grn* in this case is my Wht/Blu wire and I didn't measure a voltage between it and body ground.
I see the Wht/Blu wire in your picture, but its terminal isn't circled in yellow. It's next to the wire labelled Blu.
Here's another picture. Is it possible for you to edit one of these pictures and show me what you are talking about? I really don't see a Wht/Blu wire in there.
OP - Make sure the Blk/Yel wire attaches to the A (+) coil terminal and the Wht/Blu wire attaches to the B (-) coil terminal (diagram below). Next verify that each wire is properly connected to the ICM (diagram in post #12).
The fact that the wire attached to coil B (-) lacks battery voltage indicates a problem.
This one......It's the only one that doesn't have something you circled.
Isn't the wire you circled the Blk/Yel wire that goes to both the ICM and the coil? Hence the two wires? Again I could be wrong.
Originally Posted by RonJ@HT
OP - Make sure the Blk/Yel wire attaches to the A (+) coil terminal and the Wht/Blu wire attaches to the B (-) coil terminal (diagram below). Next verify that each wire is properly connected to the ICM (diagram in post #12).
The fact that the wire attached to coil B (-) lacks battery voltage indicates a problem.
Btw I do have the service manual pdf but I appreciate you bringing significance to certain parts. Looking at the circuit diagram I now understand why the Wht/Blu wire should have voltage. I'm still not convinced the Wht/Blu wire is the colors wht/blu in my car. I think it may have been in a wreck before I owned it so I wouldn't be surprised if some things were different colors.
I noticed that the connection to the B(-) coil terminal was a little loose, so after screwing it in a little better the wire is reading about 11V.
01-01-2015, 12:22 PM
97 Civic LX, crank no start diagnosis
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Re: 97 Civic LX, crank no start diagnosis
