oneheadlight

Yeah it took me a long time to find the info as well! It's a less used distributor. I had to get help from the dealership, parts people, manager and master techs, plus honda! Finally was able to learn more about it. Ron has posted what is in the service manual. But it doesn't tell the entire story, it's almost like Honda didn't dedicate enough info for the HX as it wasn't as popular in the production numbers. Very odd.

I can tell you what I have learned, besides having a different coil, icm, cap/rotor and sensors than the more mainstream tec model. There is a difference in the ckp,cyp and tdc sensors. Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but the specs for them are higher than the tec model. 700-1000ohms.

I say this again because the difference is higher resistance in the Hitachi model, and I'm seeing that Honda designed it to be that way as a sort of signal control for the ecu. Instead of using lower resistance and then any increase in resistance would result in a signal change. Honda did the opposite with the HX. I am still digging for more info but this is what I've found so far.

I will tell everyone this part. I was looking for primary o2 sensor information to diagnose the 5-wire wideband and couldn't find much. The wideband operates differently than the regular 4-wire o2 sensor. It does NOT jump up and down around 14.1:1 (stoichometric) it will maintain a signal level, a baseline and move from there when called upon.

I say this because when I couldn't find the info, the dealer helped me out and called Honda. Honda refused to tell the technicians anything about the HX's o2 data. They asked "it's a 20 year old part, why won't you help us to find out how to diagnose this unique wideband o2?" They said "It's proprietary information and we will not help you to diagnose it". The service manager called Honda and inquired again, they refused. Citing proprietary trade secrets? Huh?! Then I found out some info that hit me! Honda is STILL using the HX's technology in a research engine they are developing to get upwards of 40:1, lean burn mode! I think the HX can get to 20:1. That's why they won't help, stupid because we were just trying to fix it. I had to figure it out on my own. I did get it fixed so that's why I'm adding this info in here. Easy to say, the HX is way different than other civic models.

Former User

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

oneheadlight- AWESOME info. i run across these from time to time, seems people are finally starting to cut them loose. we all know the CVT is a disaster, so finding them is easy, but 5 speed models are surfacing more and more. it does kind of suck about the unique distributors, makes these little oddballs just a little harder to own.

oneheadlight

yeah the info has been hidden for a long time on the d16y5 engine. And then when Honda tells a dealer's service manager it's proprietary information and they won't tell? Wow, that shows how advanced the info was for 20 years ago, and that they're still using it! Oh the CVT was a disaster and I doubt you'd even find any out there. I have the 5 speed model. And the history of this car was it was mine back in college, then I gave it to my dad, he worked on it, kept it, then it came back to me when he passed on. I've been rebuilding it for about three years. So yeah I haven't given it up either..

It does suck about the unique distributors but it shows how different this engine is. I think it's under-appreciated because the b16a2 is "more power" than the y5. Since people are ripping the y5 out and sticking a more powerful engine in. But the y5 can be appreciated for how different it really is. If you do need a new ignition module (for the misfires and your distributor housing is ok) then definitely spend the money for the Honda module! I tried so many of the aftermarket and pure junk, yeah you save money, but not in the big picture. Also, don't forget the thermal paste for the underside of the module. There is a heatsink on the other side to suck some heat away from the module. MG Chemicals 860 is a nice silicone thermal paste, since regular CPU thermal paste (like arctic silver, ceramique) won't really work well with engine temps! In case you need the thermal paste. Also when the vtec mode when it kicked in, the aftermarket icm was NOT smooth in providing the power while in this mode. It would buck, surge like it wasn't sure if it should be doing what the ecu was asking! The Honda part? Seemless.

The y5 has an egr valve and the egr air plenum does get plugged up with carbon. usually about every 3 years it needs to be cleaned out. Honda doesn't even have this part anymore. It's not like you could just install a new part, gotta clean the old one. After 20 years the EGR did finally go, again I tried an aftermarket part, didn't work right.. Went with the Honda, no problems. I am not trying to sound like a commercial for oem parts, but i've said it before, these aftermarket parts are really junk, and just getting worse!

plus the y5 engine is very "picky" in what it wants for its lean burn modes..

and you're welcome for the info, didn't want to get too far off-topic, but thought you needed to know what I was able to find out for the past three years. it's not easy info to find!

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

no, the info is not. this is not my first hx, they're all much trickier diagnostically than other civics of this generation. strange birds.

tony_2018

In order for it to enter lean burn mode there needs to be little load as possible

oneheadlight

glad you appreciated some of the info I was able to find on the HX. Yeah it's a different way to diagnose things, the "normal" way doesn't work at all. lol. But it is fun to get through the puzzle that is the HX and get it corrected! It sure has helped my diagnostic skills! And what's amazing is most of the modern cars today use a 5-wire, wideband o2 (or a/f) sensor! So it's really not "that old". in a way.

hey definitely post up what you find with that misfire, if it was the icm, etc..

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

will do, ill be looking at it this week.

chrysler kid

Lean burn is not difficult to get into once you have the proper tools to monitor it.

The distributor difference are new to me as well, but the y5 is very dependent on constant variables, meaning it needs accurate spark and air flow mixtures. The wideband 02 is used heavily even when not in lean burn

I hooked a cheap volt meter to the secondary oxygen sensor voltage output to monitor when the car went into lean burn. The vacuum gauge would also indicate lean burn, as the car would require more throttle to accelerate. To stay in lean burn the speed must be over 58mph and below 78mph.

I want another hx they are great cars. I was getting 41mpg city and 52 mpg highway in my black car

Cheers.

tony_2018

Funny...the d15b 3 stage vtec uses the same distributor as the y8...I verified the part numbers...

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

ill let you know if i come across a clean one. ive had 3 this past year, all with cancer.

tony_2018

It looks like the coil and igniter are still being sold, maybe they can be used in the y8 distributor.

Bull Steed

Did cleaning out the EGR make the Cylinder 2/random multiple go away?

chrysler kid

It should use the same distributor as the y5, the 3 stage d15b was kind of the last hoorah for the 1.5 platform, and I think only came out in 94- 95 models in japan There is a really good article online about the civic vx development. If oil prices would have jumped in the 90's we would have probably seen alot more engine development than the bland d17

tony_2018

I can double check with my jdm parts guy. I'll ask him for the part # for the housing.

Dude...I got my 3 stage oil pump the same week I ordered it. Shipped fedex.

DooDooBrownEg

What about pcv valve? Doesn't usually throw a code, but will cause issues that will.

oneheadlight

hey thanks for jumping in on this thread! that is exactly what I was thinking (part in bold, you said).. That without the clean spark, since the y5 is very PICKY about what it wants, it wouldn't get the fuel economy it's supposed to. That is exactly what happened with the ICM/igniter died on mine. MPG's popped up then dove way down (think 8-10mpg loss), then it died. I'll be happy to get the aftermarket out of there and the oem fixed up!

41 city? yeah it should.. I was lucky to get 30mpg! before it died it recorded a 24mpg run. Definitely the icm on mine.. but thanks for the info, proves what I was thinking!

oneheadlight

yeah I was curious so I went looking for the vehicles that used the d15b, which is the CRX, nope it's a tec distributor, completely different than the Hitachi in the y5. That was what I could find for the US versions. now the japan versions, I wasn't able to find those parts.

And to give you info, the HX's development did continue behind the scenes. That's why Honda was refusing to give the dealership information on how to diagnose the wideband o2 sensor on mine! Claiming "proprietary information"! I have since found out that the HX (y5) engine technology has been in the r&d labs, where they're working on a 40:1 lean burn engine, supposedly to go into a new hybrid. interesting..

oneheadlight

yeah if you can get a part number then we can see if it's the same hitachi components.. I couldn't find that info from my sources..

tony_2018

Confirmed, 3 stage uses a P2E-A11 distributor.

chrysler kid

Yes the hybrid models use lean burn but I think they are the 1.3 motor

The d15 3 stage vtec used lean burn and a 4 pin non wideband oxygen sensor. As mentioned it was only in japan on special edition vehicles. A better distributor for us spec would be to check the d15zc available in the civic vx.

The civic gx which ran on natural gas used a y5 engine. I believe you can use the distributor from that as well. The gx was a 4 door model for fleet use and I'm nearly certain you could just put a y5 gas fuel system and intake manifold on one and run it. The benefit is that the natural gas is much cleaner burning and a gx engine would not have any oil contamination from burning gasoline so the bearings and engine components would be spotless. Sometimes you can find them on ebay for dirt cheap. I would double check what kind of compression numbers a gx engine had it may be different than a standard y5

My 96 hx that I was getting 41mpg out of had low rolling resistance Michelin tires and was running a shorter gearing s40 transmission which really helped it in the city. At minimum a manual transmission hx should get 36-38 mpg city. Check your tire pressure you want to run at max sidewall pressure on GOOD tires

Civic gx

http://m.ebay.com/itm/2000-White-Honda-Civic-GX-CNG-/191880600890?nav=SEARCH

Former User

The 96-00 D16Y5 with CVT used a regular 4-pin O2 sensor.

The 96-00 D16Y5 with manual transmission used a 7-pin wide-band O2 sensor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_D_engine#D16B5

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

very true. still haven't gotten my hands back on the car in question. plan is to inspect the egr system, and actually replace the cap and rotor, since cleaning them kept the cel off for 2 days.

chrysler kid

12:5:1 compression. Yeah thats not going to run on pump gas