philztheone

'93 Del Sol with 250k won't start. I don't hear the fuel pump.
If the engine cranks strongly and consistently and I cannot hear the fuel pump sound, can I rule out:
.ignition switch
.starter cut relay
.clutch interlock switch

I will also rule out the #18, 7.5 amp fuse.

I pulled the fuel pump relay. About four years ago it had a crack that I soldered. After pulling the relay last night, the solder looks good.

Thanks.

Phil

scia220

Sounds like bad fuel pump. Fuel pump should power on when ignition is turn to on position. If its not, its bad, Check the connection, more than likely, youll jus need to replace it. Junkyard or new. they are pretty cheap new online

philztheone

Thanks dude! Will do.

Former User

Check fuse 31 and 24.

Do the two main relay jump tests to see if the fuel pump runs.

philztheone

Ron, thanks for your suggestion. You da’ man!

Checked fuse #31. Will check #24. Found battery voltage at fuel pump connector(i.e. at top of housing). Replaced fuel pump. Problem persisted. Replaced fuel pump relay. Problem persisted. Found battery voltage at fuel pump directly. Tried to get CEL code, could not. Replaced fuel filter. Problem persists, i.e. it won’t start and I still don’t hear the fuel pump being primed. I started to look to troubleshoot the ECM but it was in me to do so today. Too much rain and zero success.

Thanks again.

Phil

Former User

Tell more. Under what conditions? But when the pump has battery voltage, it won't run, right?

When you turn the key from OFF to ON(II), does the CEL turn on and then off after 2 seconds or does it remain on?

philztheone

Found battery voltage when: fuel pump relay's #5 and #7 were jumped and my volt meters leads were plugged into the plug that goes into the fuel pump housing's connector atop the access panel. Also found battery voltage, with #5 and #7 fuel pump relay's jumped and my leads plugged directly into the plug that goes into the fuel pump.

Uh, I did not notice the CEL when I performed these tests; however, I notice when the engine cranks, the CEL does not go off after two seconds.

Ron, thank you so much. You make this site. And we are all grateful.

P.S. I have also checked fuse #18.

Former User

You say battery voltage. What was the actual reading?

But based on your information, one problem is likely that the black fuel pump ground wire is not grounded.

Thanks. That's generous but there are many helpful members here.

You did the 5-7 jump test. Does battery voltage also reach the fuel pump if you do the 1-7 jump test?

philztheone

When I tested at either the access panel connector or at the pump directly, the voltage was 11.something, I think it was 11.7 or possibly higher.

I did not do any testing with #1 and #7 jumped.

After I check fuse #24, I will retest with #1 and #7 jumped. I may just buy the housing unit from Autozone.

Thanks.

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

Lemme know when you wana tap me in ronald.

philztheone

Don't be shy Turbo. I need all the help I can get.

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

So at the fuel pump connector youre getting batt volts correct?

Batt volt meaning the same voltage as the batt or very close to it.

Have you checked resistance from the black wire at the fuel pump connector to body ground? Should be very close to zero ohms.

If you are getting batt voltage and good resistance to ground then your pump is bad.

No other way around that.

philztheone

I've replaced the fuel pump with a unit from Autozone. Since I've replaced the fuel pump, do I somehow need to reset something to clear the MIL or CEL?

I did not check voltage at the actual battery but it read well over 11 volts nearly 12, so I didn't check at actual battery. Thanks Turbo. I'll check that.

Is it possible that the fuel pump strainer would prevent the fuel pump from energizing?

I guess it is possible I bought a bad pump from Autozone but it seems too coincidental that both are behaving exactly the same, namely I turn the key to "on" and hear nothing at the fuel pump and no fuel comes out the top of the fuel filter.

Plan:
1. Check fuse #24.
2. Check voltage at fuel pump with #1 and #7 jumped at fuel pump relay.
3. Check the ground for the fuel pump housing for resistance.

Thank you.

Former User

No

No

Until you post these results, there's not much more to discuss.

Test continuity to body ground at the black wire in the unplugged fuel pump connector.

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

How did you have voltage at the pump if you didnt check it with #1 #7 jumped?

Put the multi meter to ohms and check the resistance across the terminals on the fuel pump. Check the old one too. Should be 10-12 ohms or around there

philztheone

Back to the parking lot in midtown houston. The saga continues. Here are my findings.

1. Fuse #24 is fine.
2. Fuel relay with #1 and #7 jumped instantly 12.14 volts at access panel connector, in effect the fuel pump “housing” connector. (Battery voltage 12.14 volts)

Fuel relay with #5 and #7 jumped, with ignition “on”, 11.84 volts at access panel connector, in effect the fuel pump “housing” connector. (Battery voltage 12.14 volts)
3. Unplugged fuel pump, continuity found for black wire between fuel pump connector negative terminal and where black wire connects to the housing ground screw.
4. Fuel relay with #1 and #7 jumped instantly 12.14 volts at fuel pump connector. (Battery voltage 12.14 volts)

Fuel relay with #5 and #7 jumped, with ignition “on”, 11.84 volts at fuel pump connector. (Battery voltage 12.14 volts)

philztheone

Suddenly my fuel pump energizes when I jump the relay. I "handled" the connector at the top of the tank just before the fuel pump suddenly started to energize. However it still won't start. I'm now looking at the ignition switch, since I can get the fuel pump to prime only when I directly wire it.

Former User

You tested the continuity of the black wire, not continuity to body ground, which is the proper test. The issue with bad ground for the fuel pump will likely return.

If the pump is priming, now check for bright white spark at the plugs.

Also check whether the CEL remains on. If so, pull the codes.

philztheone

Ron, you wanted me to test continuity from the fuel pump housing to ground?

I ran out of time and energy on Sunday. Had it towed Monday to Russell Smith Honda. They diagnosed a bad ignition coil and igniter. They replaced and they still can't get it to start. I spoke with the mechanic but I don't know if they have spark at the plugs. He cut me off several times. Oh well.

I want to know: if there is spark at the plugs; if they hear the fuel pump when ignition is to "on"; want to know if they pulled CEL codes.

Want to know if they were able to perform continuity tests on ignition.

To their defense, there is an alarm system which gets in the way but I was able to hunt down the two plugs to test the ignition before.

Also, I will suggest that they re-run a temporary ground for fuel pump housing and perhaps swap out the fuel filter with a Honda fuel filter. The Autozone fuel filter I put in did not seem to line up quite right with the fuel line.

Thank you all again.

Phil

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

Dont let them charge you for the things that didnt work

philztheone

Thanks Turbo! Will do!

Just heard via voice mail that the mechanic has diagnosed a short in the distributor housing. Stay tuned.

delsolintegra

I have the same car and had the same problem.

It was my ECU, specifically a bad capacitor, probably C14.

Borrow a known good ECU and try that.

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

Its a sad day when a honda dealer mechanic cant troubleshoot a 20 year old civic

philztheone

Sad indeed. I've worried it was the ECU, along with a bad fuel pump ground. How do I borrow an ECU? By the way, ECU=ECM, right?

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

Yeah same thing