bpotter05

1992 4-door dx 1.5l 5 speed 199k
Car sat for 3-4 weeks and now won't start
It cranks but won't start
Checked with a known working main relay
fuel pump primes
has good white/blue spark
Undid the fuel line to the rail and its getting fuel to there
I cleaned off the spark plugs and the dizzy and now it tries to start but doesn't. Its really close.

I smell gas out the exhaust after cranking for a while
Check engine light doesn't stay on after fuel pump primes so no CEL codes to pull

I don't know a lot about timing but read if you bolted it about in the middle that's close enough that it should start?

Whats my next troubleshooting steps?? any ideas? thanks guys!

beecee18

have you tried ignition switch, they fail often and I preach to alot about them, cause I have seen them fail countless amounts of times.

use this guide to see if this is your problem

http://techauto.awardspace.com/ignitionswitch.html

bpotter05

Would the car still turn over if the ignition switch was bad though?
my steering wheel does not lock anymore and the switch that runs the turn signals doesn't work either.

beecee18

$#!T yes it still turns over, I know it sounds weird but with all the rest of the problems around your steering column is pointing in that general direction,
This guide should give you a way of jumping or another way of diagnosing before spending the money on new part trust me.
One went out on my fathers 95 ex 8 years ago, and even that dude jumped it to get home an hour away. This guide will show you the way.
also tegger.com has a similar troubleshooting guide also
GL OP.

bpotter05

Thanks for the advice BEE but I'm not having any of these symptoms:

If you start the car and the radio dosn't turn on, then wiggle the key and it turns on.
Most often, the dash will go dark when the car stalls (no warning lights, no shift indicator, no electrical, except the horns.)
The speedometer and tachometer drop momentarily and come back up.
Car runs fine when key slightly held at start position.
Car stalls then can be restart, then stalls after driving or idling.
Once started the the car starts for a second and dies after letting off the key.
In some cases, the ignition key is warmer than normal and the electrical switch is hot.
On rare cases, all of the gauges go dark when in the ON position but if held between the on and start position they light up.
On rare cases, if held between the on and start position the system check bulbs light up on the instrument panel.
On severe cases, when the key turns to ON the usual clicks under the dash is not heard as well as the check system light but the horns work okay.
In severe cases when the key turns to START nothing happens (no electrical) but the horns or brake lights work okay.
How to confirm: When white and black/yellow wire on the ignition switch is shorted the car starts and run fine using the key. Doing this bypasses the electrical switch. (Do not attempt if you're not certain what this means.) See basic troubleshoot for a far safer method.

When I turn on the car everything works as normal, radio, gauges, dash lights, etc. When I turn the key to crank it doesn't start then die when I release it, it never starts.

beecee18

Doesnt matter, at least try to jump it accordingly to the guide, just to rule out. Wierd witchcraft, Voodo gypsy $#!T occurs in the auto world, expecially these cars.

Next

I would just suggest using a known good ECU, and a/or a known good distributor assy.

I just recently got back into hondas after a 8 year hyatus, and upon returning have seen nothing but failure of these cars as they are just dropping like flys, OBD1 doesnt help either making these things nearly impossible to troubleshoot without just throwing parts at them.
Even when one states," ive replaced distributor, fuel pump, relay, ig switch"

all that still doesnt matter cause ive seen people replace 3 different new distributors and only one works, so the term known good part is iffy also.
Distributors are sensative sometimes and you stated you cleaned yours and got a slightly better reaction so I would start with that. remove cover from ECU to inspect and make sure nothing burned up inside there?
A freshy distributor assy would be my next assault.

bpotter05

Well I tested the ignition and it tested fine (also fixed my turn signals)

Is there no other troubleshooting i can do now besides throwing parts at it??

Recap:
No CEL
fuel pump primes
tried known main relay
have spark
have fuel to the rail
tested ignition

cranks but wont turn over... whats my next step?

bpotter05

I checked the ecu it doesn't look burned up or anything. Just sucks that I have to buy a new distributor knowing that it might not fix my issue...

bpotter05

Did a compression test 120 130 130 125... that's not great, but would it keep it from starting?

05foresterxt

iTrader: (1)

Car needs three things to start...
1. Spark
2. Fuel
3. Air

Have you check for fuel at the injectors? Have you check your timing? Do you have any vacuum leaks? Anything preventing air to get to the motor?

bpotter05

I don't see any vacuum leaks. I have spark (replaced wires and plugs today too) i have fuel to the rail but don't know how to check the injectors?? And I have the distributor bolted in the middle which i read is close enough timing to start.

when I crank it almost turns over but dies... makes me think its not getting enough fuel... so how do i check the injectors? thanks

Former User

Have you checked whether the timing belt skipped a tooth or two?

Is there bright white spark at all 4 spark plugs?

Do the fuel injector clips have battery voltage?

If you remove the fuel rail with the injectors, do they spray fuel when the engine is cranked?

furious94ls

Sounds like the ECU, I'd try a known working one. While it sat, it may have gotten moisture in it.

05foresterxt

iTrader: (1)

Check the fuel rail off and see if the injectors are shooting fuel.

bpotter05

Well I caught on FIRE!!!!

Let me start from the beginning.
Thanks for all the advice. Sorry I've been busy with overtime.

I checked all four plugs for spark as described in RONJ's DIY. They all had great spark. Bright white with a hint of blue.

Then this morning I undid the fuel rail to check the injectors. As my buddy cranked I saw the injectors shoot a nice stream of fuel followed by the engine igniting in FLAMES. Luckily the fire extinguisher was right there and I got it put out after a few seconds.

Where did the spark come from???? I have no idea.

also the injectors seemed to work fine... so why the heck won't my car start?

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Your compression indicates an unhealthy engine.

bpotter05

yeah unhealthy and worn and 199k miles... but bad enough not to turn over?

ef4real

I think its possible to have erroneous compression numbers after the motor has been sitting for a while. I had a boss a long time ago that referred to it as wet and dry compression test. I personally had a b16 that had been sitting for 3 months plus that wouldn't test higher than 110psi, however after we got it running I retested the compression and all cylinders read above 180 psi. I'm not sure if this is OP's problem after only 3 weeks of sitting. Just wanted to throw it out.

bpotter05

yeah the compression would probably be higher if they engine was warm too...

so i have fuel, air and spark and still no start...

Could it still be the ECU? I have a 93 del sol 5sp d16z6 can i use the ECU from it???

I may try to take a video of it cranking to see if that will help... The timing belt looks ok.. don't think it skipped a tooth. I read if the distributor is bolted in the middle it makes the timing close enough to start. Can anyone confirm or deny that? thanks

bpotter05

Well my civic ECU should be p06 and my del sol p28. Can I use the del sol ECU to rule it out or will it not fit or damage anything?

Former User

The cylinder compressions would not prevent the engine from starting.

Did you check the mechanical timing?

beecee18

I dont want to say yes, me personally would try simply for testing only, even though I dont think its that bad. your looking to see if it starts and nothing really else.
Also I would personally let the vehicle reach operating temperature to check the vitals of the motor and compare them to the vitals of when the car was just sitting. Let the fluids flow, thermo cycle, fans cycle ect. while looking for faults that might be an indiacator of the root problem.
Be aware you will have the MIL illuminated instantly cause the P28 will be looking for the conponments that make up the vtec system, disregard these for testing. The codes will be 21,22, But dont quote me on it.

bpotter05

How do I check the timing without it running? I thought I needed it running and hooked to a timing light to time it?

Former User

The engine does not need to be running to check the mechanical timing of the timing belt. You are thinking about the ignition timing, which is different.

beecee18

You check timing by lining up the lower crank pulley with the hash mark on the lower timing belt cover. you would do this by turning the motor over by hand with a 19mm socket. once you line the white single hash mark on the pulley with the one on the platic check the camshaft gear to have the 2 hask marks 180 degrees from each other line up with the top deck of the cylinder head.