wolfocaster

How's it going?
I have a 1992 EG Hatch 5 speed with a D15B7 that i've done a good bit of work on with the intent of daily driving it. I've installed these new parts: inner and outer tie rods, water pump, timing belt, CV axle seals, main relay, distributor, battery, alternator and belt, and ECU. The car runs great, and I am thoroughly enjoying my first Honda. I do, however, have one problem I can't seem to solve. When I turn the ignition switch to the position where the main relay should click when the car has been sitting overnight, I immediately hear one click. After this click the starter will spin, but the distributor will not fire. If I wait about a minute and a half with the switch on, I hear another click from the main relay. After this click the distributor fires, and the car cranks and runs as it should with no problems or stalling. When the relay has clicked twice after the minute and a half wait, I can cycle the switch as many times as I want and hear both clicks very fast as a normal Honda main relay should. If I park the car for an hour or so, the second click will happen in about 30 seconds. This problem is very consistent, and the car is super reliable. It just gets annoying having to wait on the relay to start the car. I'm almost positive my ECU and main relay are in working order because I have the old parts from where I replaced them, and changing them out makes no difference in the way the relay performs when compared to the new units. The only suspicion I have is the Ignition Control Module in the distributor. The old distributor was bad and causing stalling/starting problems, so I no longer have it to try in the car since I turned it in for a core charge. I can easily get the new distributor warrantied through Advance Auto Parts, but want to hear some input from some experienced Honda owners before I do so since it works great after the second click of the main relay. Is there anything else that could cause this problem? Could the ICM really cause this problem? I would appreciate any input or suggestions any of you may have. Thanks in advance!

wolfocaster

Any thoughts at all guys?

Former User

You need to determine whether the engine lacks spark and/or the fuel pump won't prime when the problems happens.

In the meantime:

-clean the G101 ground on the thermostat housing
-resolder the main relay

wolfocaster

Hey man, I really appreciate your input on my thread. Spark is undoubtedly the only problem I have. I have fuel, and sufficient fuel pressure to the fuel rail. the fuel pump primes properly upon the second click. You do raise an interesting point relating to the thermostat housing ground. When I purchased the car, there was no ground to the thermostat housing. I installed a 4 AWG wire with proper connectors from the thermostat housing to the negative battery terminal. I checked the wire with a DMM and read 0 Ohms before installation. From what I know about electronics, a ground is a ground, but if this should be grounded to the body I can easily switch the position of my cable.

Former User

Do you have a two step problem?

Sometimes the fuel pump won't prime, right? And when this happens, do you also lack spark?

But sometimes, the fuel pump does prime. Are you saying that after the fuel pump primes, the engine still lacks spark?
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Your engine lacked a G101 ground attached to the thermostat housing? If so, where did you find the ground wire?

wolfocaster

No, I must have been somewhat unclear in my explanation. My apologies. I have no problem getting fuel or spark in conjunction with one another after the 2nd click of the main relay (after this the fuel pump primes as it should). Basically anytime the fuel pump primes I get spark and the car starts as it should and runs perfectly until I shut the car off and attempt to start it again. I did lack a G101 ground wire. This wire was not anywhere to be found on my car, so I made a wire from a 4 AWG gauge wire. I crimped the proper connectors on the wire and connected it from the thermostat housing to the negative battery terminal. The wire I fabricated has zero resistance, so I know that's not an issue. My question about G101 is where it is supposed to be connected to from the thermostat housing? I'm not sure I have this wire in the right place. I see from the diagram that it connects from the thermostat housing to another point on the car. What is the other point supposed to be? The diagrams are very helpful, as I'm an electronic technician and understand them completely.

Former User

See the wire with the bolt in the two diagrams I posted? You need to find it. It is very important because it is the ground wire for the main relay, ECU, engine sensors, etc. The thermostat housing (TH) provides ground for all of those circuits. The wire must be attached to the underside of the TH or on the engine or transmission. When you locate it, clean it with a wire brush and then tighten.

The wire you ran from the TH to the battery should be unnecessary as the G3 transmission ground serves the same purpose.

From the TH, the ground circuit is completed as follows:

TH --> engine --> transmission --> G3 ground --> chassis --> battery ground wire --> - battery post

wolfocaster

Thanks, I appreciate all the help. I will check the wire with a multimeter as soon as possible and see if that's my issue. I'll reply as soon as I get around to checking it.

wolfocaster

I have checked my G101 wire, cleaned it, and it reads 0 Ohms to chassis ground. My problem has not changed at all. I really don't know what else to look for.

Former User

Is the starting problem still intermittent or does the engine now fail to start at all?

Is it a fail to start, stall problem, or both?

Have you checked for CEL codes?

Have you resoldered/replaced the main relay?

strategy400

Probably re-soldering the relay will help. They are notorious for bad solder joints.

wolfocaster

I never have any stalling problems. The starting problem is very consistent. If the car is hot, it will start right up. If it is cold, you have to wait a minute to hear the main relay click. When the relay clicks: the fuel pump primes, I crank the car, the distributor fires, and it runs as it should until the next time it is shut off and allowed to cool down for a while. Then the cycle starts over. I have a new main relay in the car with no cracked solder joints so this should not be an issue. I have not checked for CEL codes.

Former User

Could be a bad ECU. Do you have a friend with a 92-95 Civic who would let you test his ECU in your car?

wolfocaster

I have a new ECU. The symptoms didn't change at all when swapping it with the old one. I really wonder if I have some type of grounding issue. My windshield wipers have a delay as well when the car is first started. I can turn them on, and they may take 30 seconds to start wiping. I'm pretty sure they are controlled by a diode in the ECU? They did this with my old ecu as well.

xfiles2012

sounds like the distributor is bad.. I just built a complete motor and had a similar problem..

chandler58

Reading this i'm glad i didn't buy a ecu yet. I have a feeling that it could be something else. So I test the relay harness and the wire that goes to the fuel pump reads zero volts. Is that normal?

Update: bought a used relay for $20 on eBay. And car started.

chandler58

this is exactly how my car is. still working on it.