EyePhoto

I have been having problems with a noisy wheel bearing for several months. I have been following various threads and learning more about the specifics of Honda wheel bearings. I have replaced many wheel bearings on other cars with no problems so it baffles me why I have such problems with this car. I have replaced the drivers side wheel bearing 6 times and although I get different noises, it still makes noise. The noise is much louder (unbearable) in the driver's position, bearable in the front passenger position, not so noticeable in the back.

Up to now I have been getting the SKF FW171 bearing, which turns out to actually be a Koyo bearing. I have just bought an NTN bearing, same as the Honda dealer would supply, and I want to check a few things before installing it.

Each time I change the bearing I refine the technique further. The first couple of times I probably made mistakes. At first I used a screw-type puller to install the bearing, then bought a hydraulic press. I have also replaced the inner wheel hub and this made the biggest difference so far by eliminating the wow-wow-wow out-of-round sound. I also replaced the knuckle but this made no improvement. It quiets down when making a slight left turn or pulling against strong road crown. It really sounds like the bearing has insufficient preload even though it is torqued at 134 lb. I press the new bearing in using an old bearing outer shell to press on so I put no pressure on the *****. Likewise, I press the hub into the inner races with no pressure on the *****. After a new installation the noise is there and doesn't get worse, maybe a little, over a couple of months.

With the hubs off, the axles feel OK, no clunking in sharp turns. I believe they were replaced before I bought the car. The car tracks OK, alignment is OK, suspension rubbers look good. Yes, I checked the other side, too. It seems fine.

I have also used a contact microphone to record transmitted noise at various points on the suspension, and on the diff casing (no changes in sound were found here when turning). I can hear variations in the bearing sound when turning left/going straight recording with the mic attached to the knuckle close to the bearing, but nothing alarming sounding compared to inside the car.

A couple of things I want to verify before putting in the new bearing.
• The side of the bearing with the metal shield goes towards the CV joint.
• What's this I read about installing the hub too tight? Maybe I'm doing that. Please explain.
• Is there some other point of noise transmission to watch out for, in the strut perhaps? Things look OK and look the same both sides.
• In one thread someone asked if the installer had greased the bearing. It is a sealed, ready-to-go bearing isn't it? I use anti-sieze during installation.

I also tried to attach an MP3 audio file of the noise but this file type was not accepted. It shows the difference in sound going straight vs turning left a bit. By turning left a bit I mean the wheel is rotated about 1" to the left.

The picture shows the sound level of different frequencies inside the car recorded on the driver's side at the left up near the top of the dashboard - travelling about 100 km/h. The 2 spikes around 300 Hz. are the bearing noise and this spike goes away when turning left a bit. You can see it is recorded at 90 DB, which is pretty loud! You can't hear the engine at all.

Marvin1985

iTrader: (5)

I don't have much experience on wheel bearings but how the condition of the driver side axle?

instrument

this is borderline ocd dude, seriously, you ok?


anyway, why not just by a new knuckle from a yard or something? just check it beforehand.

EyePhoto

As far as I can tell without actually removing the axle and stripping it down the axle appears OK. I checked it carefully when I had the knuckle off.

EyePhoto

"ocd"? Perhaps. I have been doing all my own car repairs for over 40 years and I'm determined to figure this out. I tried for some time to locate a used knuckle but the EX/Si knuckles are exceedingly scarce. Then, how can I be sure the wheel had not had some accident impact causing damage to the bearing? Also, while trying to buy a used knuckle the condition of the incorrect parts offered to me was discouragingly poor. I opted to buy a new knuckle instead.

Cjlarson14

Not sure if you have already resolved this issue, but if it is any consolation, I've used this technique on all four of my wheel bearings and other vehicle wheel bearings for quite some time. Flawless every time.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-crx-ef-civic-1988-1991-3/write-up-diy-front-wheel-bearing-replacement-2685054/

EyePhoto

I studied this thread carefully but it seems I have been doing it the same way, except with a hydraulic press. It does not answer the questions I wanted verified before doing the next bearing:
* the shielded side of the bearing faces the CV joint, yes/no?
* is there anything to the info I have seen about pressing the hub in too tight? Is it better to press it almost home and leave the last little bit to pull in with tightening the axle nut?

Also, is there any consensus that an OEM bearing (NTN) is better than aftermarket (such as SKF/Koyo)?

Cjlarson14

1. What are you referring to as the shielded side of the bearing? Picture would be nice to understand what your talking about.
2. I always pressed the bearing in flush enough so that it looked exactly like when I pulled the old bearing out, meaning push it in to where you have a small gap so that the clip ring can go on without sticking out. The thread I posted shows how this looks before taken out.

I think most would agree that OEM wheel bearings are best, due to the factory reliability. Most go 200k or so before replacing one, I know I did. That kind of reliability is not often found with aftermarket parts. So the question goes, do you want to challenge this statement by using an aftermarket part and it lasting that long to prove it wrong, or it does not do so and fails after a year or so and you then have to do all that work once again. Most would chose OEM because they already know based on what the first one lasted, how long this OEM bearing would then last. Just my .02

crxsi1

Does it have power steering? It could be something maybe with that... pump, steering rack or it could be the axle it self goin bad and you're hearing niose when theres no stress and when you turn it puts a load on it and quiets it down...

EyePhoto

The fact that you are asking to see a picture tells me you have something different at your end. Here are 2 pictures, one of each side of the bearing. One side has a metal shield over the seal. This is what the original bearings look like as well as all the replacement bearings I have seen for the EX, SKF/Koyo and NTN. It makes sense to me that the shielded side faces the more exposed seal, being the one facing the CV joint, but I can't remember for sure how the original was installed. The latest bearing I have is NTN, like the originals. I have had good results in the past with Timkin and SKF bearings in my pre-Honda days, but no experience with NTN, which I see an an unknown quantity.

I read a thread which described pressing the hub all the way in as a common error made by the inexperienced. It was described as being pressed in too tight. They suggested pressing the hub into the bearing just short of fully in and leaving the final pulling in to when you torque the axle nut.

I tried in my first message to upload a short audio file so people could listen to the sound but MP3 files are not accepted for upload.

EyePhoto

Yes, my car has power steering but there is no noise coming from the power steering pump. If it was the power steering shouldn't I be able to make the noise when the car is standing still? The noise changes pitch with wheel speed, not engine RPM.

The axles feel OK to me. They have no unusual slack and they don't clunk on sharp turns. I inspected them when the knuckle joint was off so I could work both the CV and plunge joint feeling for wear notches or lack of smoothness. They feel fine to me.

If turning a bit changes the axle load enough to eliminate the noise then why not in both directions? The noise only goes away (diminishes) when turning left. Actually, turning is not necessary. I can weight the car to one side momentarily by first turning a bit right and then straightening out. The place I seem to pick up the loudest noise with my contact microphone is the nut at the top of the strut

Today I jacked the car up and removed the callipers to test the front wheel bearings for slack - couldn't find any slack at all.

EyePhoto

In spite of not getting the answers I was hoping for, today I decided to replace the wheel bearing. Since I have had the car apart frequently lately it now takes me 8 minutes to get the knuckle off the car without rushing, from the point of placing the jack under the car, and without air tools.

Once the knuckle was off I decided to have a closer look at the front axle. I have never replaced this axle and I have put over 100,000 km on the car since I got it and yet the CV joint was tighter than I expected. From the look of it I suspect it was replaced before I got the car. So now I'm wondering, is it normal for the CV joint to be a bit tight? It moves smoothly. I removed the boot to inspect it more closely. Once the old grease was cleaned out everything looks smooth and shiny with no wear marks visible. The ***** look smooth. I couldn't see anything wrong, except it seems a bit tight for a joint with so many km on it. After more cleaning and re-greasing I put the boot back on. Maybe I was imagining it but it seems slightly smoother, but still a bit tight, it doesn't droop by it's own weight, but turns easily enough by hand. Since I have never experienced a new Honda CV joint I don't know what "normal" feels like. Can anyone enlighten me?