Tim1959

Fellow Honda Enthusiasts,
I am now frustrated & perplexed. It appears that somebody at Honda screwed up.
I am replacing the head gasket on a 1999 Honda Civic LX (D16Y7).
Page 6-44 of the 1996 to 2000 Honda Civic Service Manual instructs to replace an O-ring that is NOT available in the Honda parts catalog.
The manual shows this O-ring going in just before the "Oil Control Orifice" into the top of the cylinder head, near the camshaft, between the head & a rocker pedestal.
The Honda part # from the Honda parts catalog is: 15140-P2A-000.
This part is described in the Honda parts catalog as: "Oil passage orifice assembly."
This part (15140-P2A-000) is shown in the Honda parts catalog WITH the O-ring ('97 and earlier models) and WITHOUT the O-ring ('98 and later models).
HOW can ONE PART number include and NOT include a required 0-ring?
Does anyone know the answer, or should I call Honda?
TIA...
Tim

Update: This problem has been resolved. The problem was caused by Honda withholding information. The design of the engine was changed at some point in time, the manuals & catalogs were NOT updated to reflect the change. I eventually learned that there was a "Service Bulletin" that clearly explained everything. This bulletin was NOT available to the public (me). The pending "Right To Repair" legislation will prevent these kinds of problems from happening in the future. Tim

tony_2018

Order the one with the o-ring, or call the dealer you're about to order it from to verify. How hard can that be?

chrysler kid

If your car is a 1999 why concern yourself with the 96-97 foot note.

More than likely honda just improved the design. The 96 cars have a few small differences as honda developed and implemented an electronic design protocol in 97 to aid in quality control for universal global production symmetry. So a civic made in canada has the same standards as one made in south America etc.

The part number was probably discontinued as it now comes with the kit but you need to call the dealer to verify or get on majestic honda

tony_2018

He doesn't know if it comes with the o-ring thats the problem. Just call them dealer and have them verify that the 99-00 part # does come with the o-ring. That way if you have to return it because it didn't it wasn't your fault and they can't charge you for restocking fee.

chrysler kid

Yeah or just order the $2 o ring to be safe

Tim1959

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You need to read my post again:
-The catalog is ambiguous.
-The service manual conflicts with the catalog.
-The O-ring is NOT available separately.
-My local Honda dealer was not able to help.

Tim1959

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-The O-ring is NOT available separately.
-My local Honda dealer was not able to help.

tony_2018

Pull up what is available on the honda parts website, look through there diagrams and selectt the part you need, than contact the online dealer to verify.

Damn dude if I have to repeat this again than just take the car, tow it, to Honda.

24TEN

iTrader: (2)

That right there is really what's holding you up. If it's that important to you and for whatever reason you can't order the individual o-ring you can always get a generic o-ring from your local parts store. I've done that myself to be honest. I'm trying to verify if it comes with the o-ring myself now just out of curiosity but if I were you I'd just order it so that it gets sent sooner.

EDIT:
I see that for a 99 the generic diagram does show an o-ring but there is indeed no part# listed for the o-ring. Here's an idea, look at the 96-97 diagram and order the o-ring based on that part#.

tony_2018

The dealer has no problem verifying the part with there distributor, its a no hassle request to them because they also want to make sure the right part is ordered. But oh well.

Tim1959

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The 96-97 diagram shows an O-ring with a ref # but does NOT list a corresponding Honda part number!
I should NOT have to modify this engine because Honda made a mistake!

rockycat

Don't think Honda made the mistake. Maybe you should read the foot note that is being talked about.

24TEN

iTrader: (2)

That's what I usually use and it lists all relevant part#'s. I even looked just to make sure it was listed for your specific situation.

Also, given that I've looked and confirmed that there isn't a listed o-ring part number for 99 D16Y7 I don't think Honda made a mistake meaning no one is suggesting you modify your engine except yourself.

This was probably the best response and if your local dealer wasn't able to verify if it comes with the o-ring, try calling another (or order the one with the o-ring or separately as suggested from the start).

Tim1959

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"why concern yourself with the 96-97 foot note."
I did not refer to any "foot notes." WHAT are you talking about?

Tim1959

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"why concern yourself with the 96-97 foot note."
I did not refer to any "foot notes."

24TEN

iTrader: (2)

To be fair you never stated it was a foot note, I think they're referring to your statement of the o-ring being separate/available on 97 and older models.

EDIT: I just looked at page 6-44 of the service manual and there definitely isn't a foot note of any kind. I still think "chrysler kid" has it right.

chrysler kid

didn't mean that in a literal term, just seems like they would discontinue a part number if it became irrelevant

If you have researched the part number listed on the internet, used the search function on Google, specifically listed dseries.org, clubcivic, and honda-tech without result then I offered my explanation of why a part number might be omitted from a manual or manufacturer.

if you were hoping some one who rebuilds dseries engine for a living could help you out; you have missed your prime as there are very few members who retain that knowledge off the top of their head on this or any website anymore. So assuming dseries.org has no info I would say the part is not needed.

did your 99 have the o ring in it or are you just looking over manuals before you take it apart?

Afif Syamim

Tim1959

This is a TECH SUPPORT resource Web site. You must be much more specific with questions. List honda part numbers & exact descriptions, etc... :-)