Bloody Hatch

iTrader: (1)

If anyone solves this problem with my car. I'll paypal them a few bucks for solving this riddle. This is a tough problem to crack. It's got me and my friends scratching our heads for 3 years now.

Problem:

I wake up, the car has been off all night. Keys in the ignition, cluster lights up, hear the main relay go on. I crank the car, starter's doing it's job but just doesn't turn over. I release the key, try again, after like the 3rd, 4th crank. The car turns over, sometimes it helps if I apply gas while cranking. Anyways, car is on, runs fine. Small smell of fuel build up. I drive here and there. Turn off the car, turn it back on after an hour. Turns over first try. No issue. Park the car for the night. Wake up. Issue returns. Few cranks to turn over. So only if the car is off for more than 3 hours or more. I have the problem.

Things I've changed:

Battery
Fuel Filter
Fuel Pump
Fuel Rail
Fuel Pressure Regulator
Fuel Injectors
Main Relay
Alternator
Spark Plug
Spark Plug Wires
Distributor Cap & Rotor
Oil
Oil Filter

Things I've inspected:

All fuses are in contact
Negatives are grounded
No check engine light
Applied sea foam into my crank case, brake booster vacuum line, gas

Car: 1999 Civic DX Hatch Stock motor (just header and intake)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrVVCA1G2UY

motegicivic

Have you checked the fuel pressure regulator? You can test it with a fuel pressure gauge hooked up to the fuel filter. Also, simple test run the car, unplug the vacuum hose and and let run for a few minutes, see if any fuel starts to come out.

Bloody Hatch

iTrader: (1)

I have a gauge for the filter. Pump is working showing 40 psi.

motegicivic

Doesn't matter, you need to hook it up, run the car, test fuel pressure with it running and the vacumm hose pinched and then plug it back in.

dueyx99

now you say the engine is having a hard time turning over after sitting? as in the starter has a hard time cranking the engine over? or as in the car won't start until the 3 or 4th try, big difference

crawfo661

fpr, you can pay pal that to the same name as on here lol sounds like the regulator is bad, your loosing prime

fcm

Try this next time it is going to have a hard time starting, turn ign. on and wait for fuel pump to stop priming, turn ign. off and on again, wait for pump to stop priming, turn ign. off, cycle through that 3-5 times and on the last cycle try and start the engine, if it starts, replace the FPR. 94

motegicivic

hum....3 more posts just repeating what I said

ek3turbo

yu can try turning the engine manualy with a 19mm socket see if it spin freely for couple times and then try to start it... same thing happened to me b4 and i find out my motor started to go bad.. anyways yu can try that see if that helps..

Hidenplanvew

Are you saying the car cranks or you hear the starter but the engine isnt turning over? If so have the starter check for correct function.. could be possible issure with the plunger not making correct contact. If this isnt correct please ignore...

Possible the valve in the fuel pump isnt holding pressure when the car shuts off.. even tho its a new pump it could still be bad. whats your fuel pressure when the car shuts off?

Bloody Hatch

iTrader: (1)

Won't start on the first try. It cranks like any motor would but it continues to try longer than it usually takes. Once I release the key, and try again, the duration of the crack shortens and get closer to starting the engine. Once the engine is running, there are no issue, it doesn't die, idle is smooth.

The issue started when my car had the stock fuel pressure regulator on. But recently, I ordered a working fuel rail injector set and it came with a FPR attached as well. The problem was still there.

I'll give that a try.

Where is it located?

I'll check the pressure this morning.

------------I'll post a video up in a bit to show you guys the scenario-------------

datdurtyboi

Could be but I also think its the fpr. try it

Bloody Hatch

iTrader: (1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrVVCA1G2UY

fcm

Well not exactly. 94

Bloody Hatch

iTrader: (1)

I ran the car with the vacuum disconnected. Went from 40psi to 45psi (stayed there). While disconnected I waited 5 mins to see if the regulator would fill up with fuel and start leaking but nothing. Didn't even smell any fuel off the tip.

fcm

What is the fuel pressure when car will not start, is it still 40PSI? 94

Bloody Hatch

iTrader: (1)

Yes 40psi.

motegicivic

Couple of thoughts, are you using a stock fuel rail? stock fuel pump, stock injectors, not high flow etc?

I am wondering if it is coil issue or distributor issue at this point.

Last thought bad ECU.

Bloody Hatch

iTrader: (1)

The original fuel rail was removed and placed a working one from a LX. Same goes for the injectors and FPR. Fuel pump was purchased new. I checked the coil. It's cleaned. No corrosion. I haven't tested with a different ecu. Unfortunately, don't have anyone with a Honda here that I know.

2004civiclx2dr

Have you tried replacing the starter? Just cuz it turns over here and there doesn't mean that the solenoid is still good. Just a thought.

2004civiclx2dr

Or even cleaning the trigger wire and power supply to the starter?

jdmem205

iTrader: (2)

damn could still be a fpr i had same issue wit my aem unit

fcm

If there is 40psi of fuel pressure then fuel is not the problem, fuel to the injectors anyway.

I have to agree with motegicivic, at this point I would be looking at spark, [lack of] as the problem, check for spark when engine is not starting, although it may still be fuel related if the problem is at the injectors.

I would want to know what the voltage is at the injectors, [when cranking to start] when engine is not starting, a noid light at the injectors to check for ground pulse would be a good idea to confirm ECU/ECM injector pulse.

The other thing I would check is connections to the coil and ICM, they are plugged in using quick release terminals, I would pull the coil and ICM clean all terminals and reinstall/reconnect making sure the connections are tight. 94

Bloody Hatch

iTrader: (1)

I'll be tweaking some stuff today. I'll let it sit for half the day and try again.

Former User

What's the idle speed after it starts? What's the idle speed when the engine has warmed up?

Have you Ohm tested the ECT sensor?