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Old 10-02-2008, 04:24 PM   #1
 
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Default control arm problems leading to cupped tires

I have an 06 civic coupe ex with 38000kms and have just been informed by my Honda dealership that my tires are cupped and will need them replaced. I find out after that they need to replace my rear upper control arms because it seems they have been causing uneven wear on the tires. It is still under warranty and new control arms going to be installed. My question is why do I get stuck for the bill for the new tires? I'm so disappointed with Honda when they know this is a problem but only put out a bulletin and not a total recall. I bet there are a lot of civic owners that have no idea this is a problem and will only find out too late when the warranty is up. Am I the only one feeling shafted by Honda? I traded in my 03 vw gti because of similar problems thinking Honda will have better customer service. I guess I was wrong. I love this little car but my love is dying quickly.
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Old 10-02-2008, 04:36 PM   #2
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Default Re: control arm problems leading to cupped tires (lofi13)

there is a post about this bulletin and it has a chart for tire wear-vs-mileage and what percent of the tire they will pay for it was a few months back.


the post tittle is : FACTORY BULLETIN FOR REAR CONTROL ARMS
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Old 10-02-2008, 05:17 PM   #3
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Default Re: control arm problems leading to cupped tires (guinnessstout)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lofi13
I have an 06 civic coupe ex with 38000kms and have just been informed by my Honda dealership that my tires are cupped and will need them replaced. I find out after that they need to replace my rear upper control arms because it seems they have been causing uneven wear on the tires. It is still under warranty and new control arms going to be installed. My question is why do I get stuck for the bill for the new tires? I'm so disappointed with Honda when they know this is a problem but only put out a bulletin and not a total recall. I bet there are a lot of civic owners that have no idea this is a problem and will only find out too late when the warranty is up. Am I the only one feeling shafted by Honda? I traded in my 03 vw gti because of similar problems thinking Honda will have better customer service. I guess I was wrong. I love this little car but my love is dying quickly.
The bummer is that "tires are a wearable item" and they are eventually going to wear out so that is why honda has little simpathy for people with tire problems. I recommend you get a set of tires from a tire place and pay extra for the road hazard plan so I you run over a nail etc. they will cover your tires......My dealer barely mounts 3 sets of tires in a given weak. Maintenence and repair work is what we do. Tires are a pain in the butt... Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 10-03-2008, 05:54 AM   #4
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Default Re: control arm problems leading to cupped tires (kine462)


Read the second page. They might give you some money back on your tires, even if they've been replaced already. It's worth a shot. Money is money; even if you don't get the tires paid for completely, you might get a little something.

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Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 12-20-2008, 09:57 AM   #5
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Icon6 Service Bulletin 08-001

Honda has indeed issued a service bulletin for this problem. 08-001. My dealer says it is rare but based on what I have seen online it is extensive. The National Highway Traffic Administration can force a dealer to issue a safety recall but I noticed only one posting regarding this problem. If a lot of people post to them they should force this issue into a recall. This would put Honda on the hook to take proactive action and notify all owners within the vin range who are affected.

The type of severe wear we experienced and the stories I have heard online seem to indicate this is a serious safety issue. Personal injury lawsuits cost a lot more than repairing cars that are defective. I wonder what sort of twisted logic is keeping them from issuing a recall.

The bulletin included a schedule that the dealer is to use to give reimbursement to the owner for prorated tire wear. In our case we wore out the first set at 26k miles and the second at 17k miles later. In the first case we were advised by the tire dealer to check alignment and rotate the tires more often. More rotations seems to have shortened the tire life.
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Old 12-20-2008, 11:16 AM   #6
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The bulletin as Honda issued it is in the post above yours. This is not the only thread about this issue.

I doubt this will ever be a safety recall. The rear abs o-ring/wheel bearing recall made sense; it was a real safety problem. Something that can cause a wheel to fall off is dangerous

Ultimately it's up to the owner to monitor the condition of wear items like tires. While the control arms may cause the tires to wear faster, you driving on worn tires is your responsibility. I think this service bulletin is appropriate for the issue. If your tires are wearing faster because of the control arms, Honda will replace them. They'll even give you money towards new tires depending on your mileage. If you're in an accident caused by worn tires, then you should have paid more attention to the tires and their condition. I don't think there's a legal basis for a personal injury lawsuit in this case.

That being said, it is still a problem and it's no fun to deal with. My Si cupped the rear tires very quickly. I was given the same advice as you regarding alignment and rotating sooner. On my second set of tires I experienced the same cupping. Rotating sooner only gave all four tires the same cupping wear pattern. Alignment didn't help. Unfortunately my car being an Si; it was not part of the service bulletin. I was told by the dealership that performance tires contributed to my problem and that Honda wouldn't replace the control arms for me. I don't have the car anymore so the issue was never resolved in my case.

At least you have a course of action through the service bulletin. If you're having trouble getting the dealership to replace the tires then call Honda of North America. I don't ever think this will be a safety recall, and I don't believe that it should.
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Old 12-20-2008, 12:40 PM   #7
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Buy a rear camber kit.My wifes 07 had this recall/bullentin done a year ago and it has since then slightly cupped her rear tires(Honda blames it on the HFP suspension).The stamped "C" control arms are still too short.My 08 Si sedan has the "C" rear arms and out of spec camber even before I lowered it.

My advice is buy a rear camber kit and rotate your tires every 3k miles.Seems to help stop the cupping on our cars.
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Old 12-20-2008, 09:42 PM   #8
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Since the wear is from the inside out, it is not so obvious looking at the car from the street that there is unusual tire wear. At the outside half of the tires they appear to have quite normal tread thickness and even wear. This car tends to sit low and have the tires covered up by the sleek body style. However the inside section of the tire that makes contact with the road may in fact be slick. It does not become obvious there is a safety issue until the car is up on the rack. Not every car owner is mechanically gifted and adept at seeing the signs of unsafe tire wear. The wear occurs so rapidly that the normal warnings and signs of tire wear that a vehicle owner gets between routine inspections may not be good enough.

In most every vehicle I have ever owned before, rotation was a good strategy for making sure there was even wear between the tires but was not essential for preventing an unsafe condition. It may have gotten me a few thousand miles extra life between tire replacements. But, rotation with the Honda only tends to spread the unsafe tread wear between all four tires very quickly. So the consumer is purchasing four tires instead of two after only a third or less of the normal rated tire life. The consumer who thinks that he is doing a good thing by installing tires with a high mileage rating is only getting their investment literally eaten up by this vehicle defect.

A professional and trained mechanic rotating the tires should notice the problem. However it has been my experience that tire jocks at tire stores do not tend to be experts on suspension problems. They usually prescribe balance, rotation, alignment and new tires. Persons getting oil changes at a quick change facility that uses a pit and not a lift would not get the benefit of either the good view of the tires or of a trained eye that might spot the problem. Oil change specialists in the pit see the pan drain plug and not much else.
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Old 12-20-2008, 10:55 PM   #9
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i have done many of those control arm recalls and i hear that customers get vary pissed when they find out that honda wont cover new rear tires. but a few time some customers bitched out honda and they have paid for new rear tires but most of them dont get any help from honda about the tires. i have also noticed that replacing those arms didn't cure the wear issue completely. it was rare but it did happen. there is also a safety recall on the brake switch. one of the oil tech guys i worked with did this recall and put the switch to close to the pedal causing the brakes to lock up when this guy was driving home. damn that guy was really pissed lol
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Old 12-21-2008, 03:05 PM   #10
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Default Re: control arm problems leading to cupped tires

i posted a thread about "rear tires" and i am haveing this exact same problem with my si.i only got 20000k out of my stock tires and 15k out of my new tires.anyone else having this problem with your SI? Honda said good luck there is nothing we can do for you since they havent had any problems with the si....this sucks
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Old 12-21-2008, 04:47 PM   #11
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Default Re: control arm problems leading to cupped tires

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i posted a thread about "rear tires" and i am haveing this exact same problem with my si.i only got 20000k out of my stock tires and 15k out of my new tires.anyone else having this problem with your SI? Honda said good luck there is nothing we can do for you since they havent had any problems with the si....this sucks
you got 20 million miles out of your tires and you're complaining? were you rotating them? is the suspension stock? i've heard of people getting 30-40k out of the stock tires with rotating.
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Old 12-24-2008, 05:03 PM   #12
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Default Re: control arm problems leading to cupped tires

opps no sir that only 20k. yes everything is stock. i didnt rotate but a few times
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Old 12-24-2008, 05:58 PM   #13
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Default Re: control arm problems leading to cupped tires

I have an '07 Si with the HFP suspension (lowered about an inch) and installed the '08 Si upper control arms as soon as they were available. I have less than one degree of negative camber and have seen no unusual wear on the Falken Azenis (200 tread wear) I aurocross on or on the stock tires. The car can be made to oversteer with a bit of trail breaking which I couldn't do with the stock suspension. The softer suspension on the DX/EX may contribute to the problem as the springs seat in. Just a thought.
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Old 04-18-2009, 02:16 PM   #14
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Default Re: control arm problems leading to cupped tires

Hi, Service Bulletin 08-001 was upated February 5, 2009. The models affected by the inner rear tire wear are:

2006-2007 Civic 2-Door - ALL Except Si and Honda Accessory HFP Package
2006-2007 Civic 4-Door - ALL Except Si
2006-2007 Civic Hybrid - ALL
2008 Civic Hybrid - From VIN JHMFA3...8S000001 thru JHMFA3...8S010456

See this link:

http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/a08-001.PDF

My 2008 Honda Civic Hybrid had the "C" rear control arms installed at the factory and the VIN is larger than the range in the service bulletin, but I still have rear inside tire wear/cupping problems that started to occur around 15K miles and caused rumbling sounds.

There is over 20K on the car now and the dealer will pay for 3 tires but they say there is no problem. They have had it on the alignment rack and they said everything was ok.

So I am a science experiment now.

Last edited by Barbeque; 05-09-2009 at 12:02 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:46 PM   #15
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Default Re: control arm problems leading to cupped tires

The cupping is common on the non Si civics. Call American Honda and complain about the tires most of the time they will cover it. You can also try and speak to the are Honda Rep, most of them stop by the dealerships once a week. Ask the service manager if you can speak to the rep. The Honda Rep has approve lots of things.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:09 AM   #16
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Default Re: control arm problems leading to cupped tires

Damn just bought my 06 Civic a month ago and just started to realize i'm having the same problems too jeez any one know if they only cover it only on warranty I think my warranty is up
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Old 04-27-2009, 02:54 AM   #17
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Default Re: control arm problems leading to cupped tires

this is a Service Bulletin- this can be done, if customer complains about it, under warranty (its free) if out of warranty (you pay for everything but at least they are aware of the problem). This kind of stuff the technician don't have to tell you because its not a safety hazard and wont endanger your life.

for instance if the tech feels uncomfortable in your seat, should he complain to Honda for you? even though you are OK with it.

A Safety Recall- must be done before vehicle on the lot is sold, or when customer comes in for service/recall. its a recall because it is a safety issue.

for instance the rear sensor o-ring and sensor itself is inspected for damage and corrosion, if there are no signs of that the parts are reinstalled and passes inspection. if the o-ring is damaged or the sensor is damaged the parts and labor needed for the repair will be covered by American Honda.

I will bring up something else. Air bags for example. lets just say that you have a 06 Civic and you came 1 day after your warranty ended. Your SRS light is on and the service advisor tells you your passenger air bag internally failed and is throwing a code. No one, except yourself will be paying for the parts and labor. It is a safety item but your seat belt is the one thats suppose to hold you back and save you. Thats is why SRS is called Supplementary Restraint Systems. Notice the word Supplementary.

So Honda will take care of your parts and labor on non wear and tear items if its under warranty. NO, this is not a safety recall. Monitoring tire wear is like monitoring your own tire pressure frequently. You shouldnt only have to get it checked when you get the vehicle serviced.

I do love the 06 Civic, even though it has problems, mainly because no TPMS.
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Old 05-09-2009, 11:52 AM   #18
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Default Re: control arm problems leading to cupped tires

Honda paid for 3 out of 4 tires. The dealership put it on the alignment rack after I told them it was just put on their rack. They tried to charge me for an alignment and I refused to pay it. I also refused to pay for the labor since they told me I only had to pay for 1 of the tires.

This whole thing took several weeks to line out and I am not very happy about the whole affair.

We will see what happens with the tire wear now.

I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering and a AAS in Automotive Technology and I am a former ASE Master Mechanic. Man has been able to engineer a car that will not wear out the inside edge of a tire for over 50 years and I do not see why this is such a difficult thing to do now.

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Old 10-30-2009, 02:33 PM   #19
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Default Re: control arm problems leading to cupped tires

Hi Barbercue. How's the wear on your new tires now that you have the modified rear control arms installed (one with "C") by Honda? My 2006 EX Civic has the original control arms and 1 yr old Michellin tires are cupping. The dealership I go to will replace the control arms next week.
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Old 10-30-2009, 11:52 PM   #20
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Default Re: control arm problems leading to cupped tires

I dont know if this is for everyone, but my dealership supplies free tires for life so long as I service with them.
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Old 10-30-2009, 11:55 PM   #21
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Default Re: control arm problems leading to cupped tires

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Originally Posted by Barbeque View Post
Honda paid for 3 out of 4 tires. The dealership put it on the alignment rack after I told them it was just put on their rack. They tried to charge me for an alignment and I refused to pay it. I also refused to pay for the labor since they told me I only had to pay for 1 of the tires.

This whole thing took several weeks to line out and I am not very happy about the whole affair.

We will see what happens with the tire wear now.

I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering and a AAS in Automotive Technology and I am a former ASE Master Mechanic. Man has been able to engineer a car that will not wear out the inside edge of a tire for over 50 years and I do not see why this is such a difficult thing to do now.
My car had a slight misalignment from the get-go when I bought the car, but it gradually became so bad that it would shoot across the freeway if I let go of the wheel. A dealership did a complete alignment at not cost to fix the issue (a few months later after the purchase). I'd think that Honda dealerships are pretty good at doing free of charge jobs for things that are obviously their fault...but I could be wrong.
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Old 08-13-2010, 03:09 PM   #22
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Default Re: control arm problems leading to cupped tires

I have a 2006 Honda Civic LX with 99,845 miles. I brought my car to a tire dealer to determine the cause of loud noise from bottom of can. The dealer said that 3 of the tires have scalloped wear which is causing the noise. The dealer replaced the two most worn tires and said that I should check with the Honda dealer to see what is causing the early tire wear (30,000 miles). The Honda dealer said that the rear upper control arm is worn and that I need a control arm replacement, an alignment, and 2 new tires. I have an extended warantee and my claim was denied because the comapany said that this is an alignment problem which is not covered. What action can I take? Thanks
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Old 08-16-2010, 06:38 AM   #23
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Default Re: control arm problems leading to cupped tires

actually theres nothing "wrong" with these control arms honda just found that the negative camber they engineered the car with it too low and thus causing cupping and early tire wear.the new ones just bring the rear camber out like a degree.you must have a crappy ext warr company.the one my dealership uses pays for em all day.the people that rotate regularly have little problem even with the low camber.
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Old 11-05-2013, 09:58 PM   #24
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Default Re: control arm problems leading to cupped tires

I just had mine replaced yesterday and I hate it. The old control arms handled better and I can tell.
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:38 AM   #25
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Default Re: control arm problems leading to cupped tires

I got a letter in the mail about a class action settlement or something from Honda. It was for the control arm problems. It said if you had them replaced you could be reimbursed for the control arm and prorated for tires. I brought my civic in today to Honda and they are replacing the control arms and doing an alignment for free.
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