phalty16

I have an 06 Si I bought used in August '09 with 41k on it. Already had a cold air installed but no bypass valve (which I later found out is N/A for this application.) Anyway, shortly thereafter we had a ton of rain here and despite trying to just clutch through huge puddles (no gas, just coast I mean) I did manage to suck up some water. Can't remember if I had a check engine light first and the car died or if I saw check engine light after I started her back up to make it the few remaining blocks to my house. Anyway, it sits in the garage the whole night, and I take it to my local dealership the next morning. Much to my surprise, they tell me that there is no damage and my mass air flow sensor just got wet. Said all they had to do was dry it out with some kind of foam they have and sent me on my way. Didn't charge me anything.

All has been well for the most part (have just tried to be SUUUUUPER careful when we have any rain) until 11/17. I'm now at 63k on the odometer. I start the car, back out of the driveway and am headed to work. The on-ramp for the highway is a mere 5 or 6 blocks so I make it up there (car is still cold all the while but that's pretty normal for me and my professional level of oversleeping) stop at the intersection and then made a right turn. Started accelerating was only about 35mph when I suddenly have an oil light. I immediately panic and pull over and kill the car as fast as I can. I can hear it right as I'm turning the key just sounding nasty. I get out and look under the girl and she's just pouring oil.

Have it towed back to the same dealer where I found out later that day that I've thrown a rod - cylinder #1. I did purchase an extended warranty on this bitch so I hope it's covered... Fast forward to now and it's been 2 weeks that my car is still sitting in the dealership. The dealership has done all the tear down required by my warranty to determine the cause (first remove the pan, couldn't tell exactly what it was so then they said pull the motor and disassemble the head) and are saying they are unable to determine what exactly happened due to there being too much damage. For this reason my warranty claim is being denied.

The dealership keeps saying they don't find evidence of hydrolock (no second carbon line in that cylinder so the rod didn't appear to have been bent, no dirt on the inlet side of the air cleaner element, no bad ecm/pcm or fuel injector) and the bearings seem to be fine. They still retain this position even though I was previously in for water, especially since we don't see that second carbon line AND it's been 21,000 miles ago).

Any thoughts on that?!? The belief is that rods only bend or break when you've got a hydrolock situation or bad bearings but since neither seem to apply here... I'm wondering if maybe my rod could have been defective?


As it stands right now, I'm footing the approximately $5.5 grand bill and plan to file a complaint with the insurance commissioner and possibly a lawsuit
Read more at https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...k#post44148444

phalty16

Posted the above a couple of weeks before and only had one reply.

The "warranty" didn't cover it and I paid $5.7k out of my pocket for a used K20Z3 w/ 48k. Still fighting it but just wondered if anyone had any thoughts.

Thanks in advance for looking/replying!

RICO_

Sounds like you got HOSED. That's basically the equivalent of sending someone to prison because the police couldn't prove that he did NOT commit a crime. In other words....guilty until proven innocent.

But honestly it sounds like they reported to the warranty claims department that you had previously been in for water ingestion and they possibly used that against you and denied your claim as a result.

Good luck trying to go through Honda Customer Service to. They have no idea what they are talking about and will do nothing to assist you.

phalty16

Thanks Rico. I DEFINITELY feel like I've been hosed. I keep running into road blocks as far as trying to do something about it too. But for that much money, I have tons of fight left in me.

bee guz

All warranty company's are the same if they can weasel out of any repair they will, I bought a new tacoma in 09 the radio stops playing, toyota knows about the problems but they ignore you when you bring it up.

I know my problems are a hell of a lot smaller than an engine but if they weasel out of those.......

If they don't see it happening it didn't happen, same thing happened to my niece she had a corolla that surged at stop signs and lights and they did nothing, another thing she found out was she was taking the car there for oil changes and they never changed the oil but they charged her for it every time.

I can't stand dealers I wouldn't take my car back unless I have to.

Yes you got screwed royally I'm not surprised at all.

RICO_

You're better off taking this to court. I can speak from experience because I am already in a similar situation with a head gasket problem I had with my car. I just updated that thread.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-civic-2006-2015-79/my-car-bad-shape-2755630/

bee guz

If a rod bearing was starved for oil you should have noticed it long before it let go, if a rod bolt let go/broke what ever, it would be almost instant.


I can see you bending the rod, if the intake ingested a large amount of water at higher rpm, or it let go because it caused a hydrostatic lock stopping that cylinder dead, but with a lock the pin could destroy piston, and do some chewing of the block .

Did you by any chance get pics of the damage pics would tell the story anyone that knows engine repair should be able to see what exactly happened.

phalty16

Sorry for the delay. I'm so f**king disgusted with this whole thing! I do have some photos. I actually have the old motor sitting disassembled in my garage. I took a few while it was still at the dealer and have only photographed the broken piston since it's been sitting in my garage. I'll post those. Anything in particular you want pics of?

bee guz

I guess it all depends on the connecting rod, you said you threw a rod, generally that means a totally different thing than a smashed piston.

If the rod let go at the crank that is oil starvation, but if the rod let go at the wrist pin that can be due to the piston being destroyed from the top.(water ingestion or pin failure)

when that happens its a hydrostatic lock,the engine will stop a very low speed, idling or will not start at all, at driving speeds the engine will want to keep running the rest of the engine keeps moving and that piston and rod stops dead in it's tracks.

A pic of the top of the hole seeing the piston,(good pic) before the engine was pulled a pick from the bottom looking at what is left of the rod,

The main thing is the rod(good pic) and why it let go, it could have been a wrist pin failure, or a smashed piston from water ingestion stopping the engine dead at highway speeds.

And a pic of the bottom now while its dissembled.

If it was water ingestion your screwed if you have a CAI, but if the pin or the piston or the rod bearing failed, they owe you big time.....

cloumep3

Very well said! Buddy of mine actually hydrolocked his old b16 motor (less than 10k miles) with AEM CAI and above is what the dealer manager told him, who at the time was older brother of my buddy. Lucky for him, because of his brother, got a brand new motor. GL!!! stealers suck big one!!!

phalty16

Sorry if I misuse any terms. Just a chick who loves her Hondas and knows only a small bit about them having sat through a couple o' swaps. Just trying to tap into knowledge of people who know so I appreciate any help.

'Threw a rod' is the term the dealership tech guys told me. The connecting rod is just ripped apart in the middle. Like my original post said, I did have a CAI and I did have it in the same dealership once before SPECIFICALLY due to water ingestion, HOWEVER the dealer maintained through all of this bullshit that they DID NOT believe hydrolock was the cause because it was 21,000 miles ago that I had it in for said water ingestion and because there is no second carbon line present on that #1 cylinder wall - ie it wasn't bent before it broke.

When I said pics of 'broken piston' I just meant the whole assembly - piston & connecting rod but I see after a fraction of research that piston just refers to the part on top only so my bad on that.

Here are the pics I've got thus far.

1 - 3 are just kind of 360° of what's left of the piston and it's fu*ked connecting rod.

4 - cylinder wall #1
5 - top of piston #1 (the warranty adjuster's report said it looked 'cleaner' than the others like it had some kind of fluid sitting on top)
6 - top view of cylinder walls #3 & #4 (my service adviser said it didn't look any cleaner than the others in his opinion... Do you guys agree?)
7 - what's left of connecting rod in cylinder wall #1 -- I'll try to get a better pic of this since it only shows the bottom side and not what's left of the rod still there on the crank. Hard to hold it up in there and photograph. I'll see what I can do.



Thanks again!

phalty16

Oh and correction. I originally estimated I was doing 35mph when this MF let go and I was estimating high. I need to revise that. In testing since I've got this replacement motor and based on that I can still vaguely see my oil trail on the street, I had barely completed my turn and think I was really doing more like 20mph. WTF.




Also another note is that my $5.7k was for the used K20Z3 w/ 48k (~$5200 parts and labor), a new clutch and the return back to the ol' factory airbox. I wasn't going to fu*k with the CAI again after this b.s.

vladd

$5.2k?? ouch. you can find a used k20z3 for like $2k.

phalty16

That may be true Vladd. According to my Honda dealership that would be my price if we weren't dealing with an Si motor. I paid almost that much in labor alone. But so is life when you don't have the time nor the resources to fetch a motor and toss it in yourself. Dealerships typically equal more expensive but considering the amount of bullshit I had already endured and that I was without my car for 24 days already I didn't have time to keep waiting and I felt better about 'Honda' doing the work than I would about some joe schmoe. All in all just a lot of bs.

MERC6372

x2
always wondered if their even trained lol

bee guz

To me it looks like a simple rod failure, the bottom end of the rod is still attached to the crank so that leaves out a rod bearing oil starvation problem.

The top of the piston didn't hit anything to cause the rod to fail,(Valve, head) in my opinion YOU GOT SCREWED for something they should have repaired under warranty.

What I see plain and simple is a faulty connecting rod, and a trashed block

vladd

in that case, your honda dealership lied to you. the k20z3 IS the si motor, and you can find a used k20z3 for around $2k + install. the dealership must've been charging you like $200/hour for labor or something.

phalty16

Vladd, I know the K20Z3 is the Si motor. What i was saying is they told me a NON-SI was about 2 grand. They charged $3200 for the new-to-me but used K20Z3 I've got in there now. I had to pay for a lot of dis-assembly that wouldn't have been necessary had the 'warranty' company not requested it. Yay for me.

phalty16

Finally bee guz!!! Someone who sees it for what it is!! LOL, do you have any credentials or know someone who does who would agree with your assessment?? This **** is bullshit. I mean I needed my car back so I bit the bullet and paid for that **** but I'm not about to let it go. Hence why I posted here. I wanted some second opinion action. I'm trying to find some way to get these ****ers at the extended warranty company to reimburse me. I need a damn attorney who won't charge unless I get paid. Haven't had any luck on that avenue yet though.

bee guz

You hire an attorney on a contingency basis, he will get a chunk/share of the money but you will not be out for the full load.

Any mechanic worth anything can see what happened, I started working on cars when I was 12, (60's) and stayed in the business up until the late 80's, but still do all my own work.

I don't trust dealers, past the point when I buy the car I wouldn't go back to a dealer unless something happened like your problem.

You show those pics to any mechanic that knows engine work, the pics tell the story, the warranty company bamboozled you into paying because they know you needed the car.

I had some dealings with big insurance company's, on other matters I was offered 1/10 of what I got them for as there first offer, which you never take, unless it's the full amount you were seeking.