30MadMax30

Has anyone installed a kill switch on the PGM-FI relay coil ground wire between the UH fuse/relay box and the ECU? How fast of a kill is this while driving and does it affect anything else? I tried a fuel pump kill but it takes too long for the engine to die.

dirtySOHC's

yah it's called the ignition switch.

what are you trying to do?

yuning83

probably trying to kill the engine downhill to achieve amazing mpg

Neptronix

how is turning off the fuel different than turning off the car itself?

Ironical

that is amazing....just buy a fit or yaris.

pu tang

i dont get it either, just turn off the car, put it on neutral and let it glide?

SIVIC 3

what is up wth these posts lately?
you know your in 06+ civics right? go post your hippie **** in a vw forum.

Kidnkorner

Has anyone considered a water injection kit? Not only would you pick up a few MPG's you could effectively step down to regular unleaded and maintain premium unleaded power.

Neptronix

water injection..
wouldn't that degrade the fuel system?
I guess i can't say because i haven't researched.

All i know is that water has minerals and other nasty stuff in it that degrades house piping
over time, so imagine it's effect on even thinner, smaller pipes at a higher rate of flow.

Unless that is, you're using water that has been processed like crazy.
But then you might as well buy more expensive fuel..

chiggin

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Neptronix &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All i know is that water has minerals and other nasty stuff in it that degrades house piping over time, so imagine it's effect on even thinner, smaller pipes at a higher rate of flow.

Unless that is, you're using water that has been processed like crazy.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's called distilled water, and it's not that expensive.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kidnkorner &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Has anyone considered a water injection kit?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you talking about that HHO crap? It doesn't work. The system involves using electricity to split water into hydrogen and oxygen and injecting it into your fuel system. There are two main problems with this system. First, the net energy output is negative. In other words, it takes more energy to run than it produces. The second problem is hydrogen embrittlement. Hydrogen tends to cause metal to become more brittle. I wouldn't waste my time with one of these systems yet.

Killing the engine and coasting while driving is not a good idea at all. It may save you gas, but at the same time, you loose brakes, power steering, and everything else that is run by the engine. Driving around like that is going to make it very unsafe for the rest of us on the road. DON'T DO IT!!


Modified by chiggin at 1:07 PM 7/3/2008

Kidnkorner

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Neptronix &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Unless that is, you're using water that has been processed like crazy.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Distilled water is pretty cheap. Also I am installing a 90 degree water injection nozzle on a P2R throttle body spacer. No running thru fuel lines necessary.

The water injection kit I have added to my shopping cart is from AEM.

Neptronix

yeah but is distilled even good enough?
I don't know. i'd worry about things rusting anyways. Unless distilled is completely bereft of minerals ( less abrasive and likely to eat away at things over a long period of time )

Killing the engine can be safe... late at night or on backroads with little to no traffic on long trips.

chiggin

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Neptronix &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Unless distilled is completely bereft of minerals ( less abrasive and likely to eat away at things over a long period of time )</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is pretty much the definition of distilled water. Nothing extra, just water.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distilled_water

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Neptronix &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Killing the engine can be safe... late at night or on backroads with little to no traffic on long trips.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Until that deer jumps out in front of you or you come up on a stalled car in the road around a blind turn. Your best bet would be to put it in neutral and coast with the engine idling. You are saving gas without sacrificing critical safety components.

chiggin

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kidnkorner &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The water injection kit I have added to my shopping cart is from AEM.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Link please? I'm not really sure what you are talking about here.

Neptronix

depends on where you are. No deer on my 220 mile trip to la i take twice a month.

Putting it in neutral and coasting with the engine idling uses more gas than being in high gear.
The only thing is, you lose more momentum. Hence the engine shutoff.

chiggin

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Neptronix &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Putting it in neutral and coasting with the engine idling uses more gas than being in high gear.</TD></TR></TABLE>

How exactly is that possible? Cruising down the highway in high gear = around 3k rpms. Car idling in neutral = around 800 prms. Last time I checked, lower engine speed = less gas being used. Please explain your logic.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Neptronix &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">depends on where you are. No deer on my 220 mile trip to la i take twice a month.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Deer or no deer, my point is you never know what is going to happen or when you are going to have to slam on brakes. For the safety of you and everyone around you, do not cut your engine off when driving.

Kidnkorner

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chiggin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Link please? I'm not really sure what you are talking about here.</TD></TR></TABLE>

http://aempower.com/ViewCatego...D=120. I am going with the 5 gallon unit because mine will always be on.

Neptronix

you must not know about deceleration fuel cut off.

Cars have had this since the early 90's, possibly sooner. I think it might have been introduced as an OBD1 feature.

Above a certain rpm ( in my integra, 1000rpm ), fuel isn't sent to the injectors and the momentum of the wheels going to the transmission to the engine keeps the motor turning.
A lot of people don't know about this, at all.
I didn't for a long time, and i've tested it against going into neutral.. there is a benefit, until you downshift into 3rd gear, 2nd and 1st just beat on your tranny/clutch cuz they're such short gears.

go google it. it's called DFCO

Neptronix

I don't understand having a water/methanol injection kit on a non-boosted car.
Okay, so you can change your timing..... which is good, if you have a tuneable ECU, such as on the K Series, but i haven't heard of anyone tuning the r18 ECU, hence changing the timing. I am almost certain that the timing is not changeable via any physical methods either.

Besides the r18 ECU has more rocket science involved ( variable spark timing, compression ratios, lean burn mode, etc etc ) than anything else out there, so i doubt you'd wanna hypermile tune it in the first place, even if you could.

for the ~$500 you spend on this, and the cost of distilled water, you could spend the extra 20 cents on premium gas for what.. years?

Neptronix

and to get further into the boost thing, when running a crapload of boost, you get high compression ratios and need high octane fuel to handle that.. that's where an injection kit comes in.
Or rediculously sized injectors and a massive fuel pump.

chiggin

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Neptronix &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you must not know about deceleration fuel cut off.</TD></TR></TABLE>

There is not a current generation Honda vehicle that sports this feature. The closest thing to this that is available in a current generation Honda is the variable cylinder management. This is only available with the Honda v6 engines.

The Honda feature that is closest to DFCO was offered in the previous gen civic from 2001-2005. You could get the civic in the HX trim that had a feature called 'lean burn' (the hybrid had it too). Less fuel would be used in the combustion process, but at no point would there be no fuel going to the engine. The 'lean burn' option is not a part of any current generation Honda Vehicle.

That being said.....your best bet is to put the car in neutral and coast with the engine idling. This way you won't loose your brakes, power steering, or anything else and you are still helping your gas mileage.

Neptronix

my 1995 integra has DFCO.
My 2000 chevy cavalier had DFCO.
my girlfriend's 1994 honda del sol has DFCO.
and my 1999 honda civic EX has DFCO.

it is listed in service manuals. read one.
Why they would discontinue this feature is beyond me.
I do know that 2005 cavaliers do have DFCO.

the 2006+ r18 engine does have a lean mode during cruising.

If i need to back up what i've said with official honda documentation, i will.
But IMHO you should know what you're talking about before you type.

Neptronix

here is more info on DFCO:

http://www.yarisworld.com/foru...=4248
yaris has it.

http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=7321
7th gen civic has it.

i stand corrected on the lean burning r18. I forget specifically what features it
has to save mileage, but it is full of rocket science that make tuning it a serious
pain in the ***** to deal with.

chiggin

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Neptronix &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my 1995 integra has DFCO.
My 2000 chevy cavalier had DFCO.
my girlfriend's 1994 honda del sol has DFCO.
and my 1999 honda civic EX has DFCO.

it is listed in service manuals. read one.
Why they would discontinue this feature is beyond me.
I do know that 2005 cavaliers do have DFCO.

the 2006+ r18 engine does have a lean mode during cruising.

If i need to back up what i've said with official honda documentation, i will.
But IMHO you should know what you're talking about before you type. </TD></TR></TABLE>

How are any of the vehicles that you listed relevant in the 06+ Civic forum? If not a single one of the current generation Honda vehicles has DFCO then IMHO, there is no point in bringing it up in this forum.

According to Honda, the closest thing they ever had to DFCO was the lean burn that I mentioned earlier. I would like to see the official Honda documentation you mentioned that proves the existence of DFCO because I have been told by 2 different people at Honda that DFCO has not existed in any Honda vehicle. In fact, the only evidence of DFCO existing that you have provided has been in forums on the internet. I have not come across a single 'official' source of information that discusses it. I am not going to go so far as to say "maybe you should know what you are talking about before you type", but you are lacking on evidence.

Neptronix

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums....html

From the service manuals:

K20Z3:
Fuel Cutoff Control
During deceleration with the throttle valve closed, current to the injectors is cut off to improve fuel economy at engine speeds over 1,150 rpm [emphasis mine]. Fuel cutoff control also occurs when the engine speed exceeds 8,200 rpm, regardless of the position of the throttle valve, to protect the engine from over-revving. When the vehicle is stopped, the ECM cuts the fuel at engine speeds of over 7,700 rpm. Engine speed of fuel cut is lower on a cold engine.


R18:
Fuel Cutoff Control
During deceleration with the throttle valve closed, current to the injectors is cut off to improve fuel economy at engine speeds over 910 rpm (A/T model) or 950 rpm (M/T model) [emphasis mine]. Fuel cutoff control also occurs when the engine speed exceeds 6,900 rpm, regardless of the position of the throttle valve, to protect the engine from over-revving. When the vehicle is stopped, the ECM cuts the fuel at engine speeds of over 5,000 rpm. Engine speed of fuel cut is lower on a cold engine.

Here is a thread from suspendedhatch ( well known here and on other boards ), read post #3 for an explanation of DFCO.

http://www.gassavers.org/showthread.php?t=7011

Honda has had DFCO since 1988.
I don't know who you are talking to from honda.
I actually stumbled upon a buick '86 turbo v6 ECU programming guide while i was looking for links.. even GM had DFCO, back then, with a lot of parameters to control it!

If you still don't believe me, plug a scanguage into your car in 5th gear and let off the throttle.

it will display 0 gallons per hour for fuel injector rate, and 9999mpg.
I can't think of any better evidence than that alone.
In fact, there are a lot of DIY sites that explain how to make your own mileage-ometers and they display the same thing.

If you don't believe information on the internet, what are you doing on the internet, dude?