gents97civ

Took my wife's 04 civic lx in for diagnosis and warranty replacement of Catalytic converter today(manifold/cat is cracked). Car has 75k miles on it, and converter is covered under 8/80 warranty. Dealer is stating that often during replacement of converter that oxygen sensors break off or are damaged in removal. They want me to pay $731 for 2 oxygen sensors and exhaust manifold shielding. Shouldn't they pay for these damages if they are a result of the replacement of the defective converter? I also have extended warranty to 100k miles, and it states in the manual that sensors are covered, but exhaust is not. Honda Care is closed today, so I will call Monday to find out if they may cover this.

I do understand that oxygen sensors are difficult to remove on higher mileage cars, but I just feel that they should pay for this as part of the warranty replacement if required to complete the repairs.

Maybe someone who works at a dealership can chime in on this matter, or if anyone knows any laws related to this issue. Thanks in advance for the help!

portaman03

"Exhaust manifold shielding".. are you referring to just the heat shield?

The only thing you really need the dealer to replace is the catalytic converter (which in your case is built into the exhaust manifold.

Not sure if your heat shield will need replacing but thats your call if it looks like it, they are a few bucks online and you can replace it yourself with 3 or 4 easy bolts.

And the o2 sensors are a ripoff if they try charging you, you can get them for around $100 and again, another easy replacement with the right size wrench. They plug in or you can wire it if you want to get a cheaper one.

Gibson5469

If the O2 sensors are working fine now, then they should work fine in the new exhaust. If the dealership happens to damage them, well that's their problem and cost.

I would call a few other dealers and ask about exhaust replacement, and lead them to answer the question about replacing the O2 sensors.

striker81

$731 for that, they are smoking crack!...

eviee1973

We used to tell customers the risk of breakage from removal of the O2 sensors, and that we would apply to have them paid for by Honda Canada Inc if unable to salvage and reuse, however no guarantees. Never had any problems with getting paid for replacing a single sensor from Honda Canada Inc. The dealership is being lazy (flat rate techs), and a service advisor who gets paid commission or selling parts and labour, and there is more percentage commission from customer pay operations, than warranty pay operations. State to service advisor to reuse sensors, if they break then ask for broken sensor back, get it in writing that they refused to submitt the broken sensor as part of the claim. Pay with a credit card so you can dispute merchant charges with card provider. Contact customer relations if they break, and expect you to pay for it/them, instead of them submitting the broken sensor(s) with the warranty claim. When replacing convertors if we replaced the heat shield and hardware, we always submitted and got paid for those items by Honda Canada Inc.

Boilermaker1

If the sensors have to be replaced with the manifold replacement then there is absolutely no labor involved (screw them in to the part you're installing anyways). The wideband is maybe $150 with dealer markup, and the other one might be $70. But still, I dont think you should have to pay for them breaking them. I've never had an issue getting old O2 sensors out, and I definitely dont have the fancy O2 sensor socket.

gents97civ

So here is what I did. I got the loaner tool kit from Advance Auto, and took them out myself. I antiseized them up, and scheduled for my converter to be replaced on Wednesday. I'm sure that they will come out very easy so if they break them and try to charge me I'm gonna contact the BBB.

lobudgetr

Sounds like BS to me, I'd take it to a different dealership, and especially since you already took them out and antisiezed em if they brake them they should def replace them.

Curiouz_G

but paul does :D

Its easy

jdmfreak1992

Man that sounds like some bs you should makes sure your have some evidence to prove that there lying like maybe video you take the sensors out or snap a few pics just incase they try to screw you and say they broke.

lisa-wilson

Hi I am new to this and have been reading everything I could find that seemed related to my Honda saga. I have loved my Honda my first one I had 20 years this one made it to 10 and then the catalytic convertor started a series of problems that just won't stop.

After stranding me in Bald **** Ark, with sudden loss of power and check engine light able only to go 5 mph. The mechanic there "cleaned it out" and I made it back to Tulsa. It did it again, my mechanic cleaned it out. I was getting ready for a trip so and we due to have the timing belt, water pump replaced, get everything checks and the light was coming on we had to put on an O2 sensor. So we replaced the catalytic convertor - he got it from a Honda Dealer so it is under Honda warranty.

One week later I am 200 miles down the road and on comes the engine light, and the power drops off. I make it in to a grocery store in Ark. Where they are kind enough to locate the local mechanic. He tows the car in, meanwhile I get a cab to the next biggest town to rent a car. I have to make it to Memphis where I am beginning rehearsals for a play. Dave the mechanic puts it on the computer and the Top Dead Sensor is out. He orders a new one and puts it in, I have the rental car for a week in Memphis.

Day off I drive to take it back, and pick up my car - he only takes cash!!!! thank goodness I had enough and 10 bucks to spare. I get back on I 40 and the light comes back on, but the car isn't losing power this time.

I debate getting off in Little Rock, and decide to drive on to Memphis. The next day I take it in to be put on the computer at a repair shop - it needs a new emission coil and E.L.V. which I have put on. 2 days later the light is back on,

I go in and they check yes it is the 420 code. I have brought in my jpeg copies of the invoices and receipts showing the purchase and part number etc. They say call my mechanic in Tulsa to see what he wants to do. They think the car should be okay to drive ( I have two long trips before I am back in Tulsa) My mechanic says it cant' be the catalytic convertor its new, nothing goes wrong with them the fuel mix must be wrong. Don't drive it. The car sounds like its running fine. the mileage is fine - though I haven't been driving that much.
I take it to a Honda Dealer Service here in Memphis. They put it on the computer 2 420 codes. Need to keep it. Talk to them later they need to " take it apart" . 2 days later they have not found anything wrong so they turn off the light - but at least they don't charge me.

18 miles from the repair shop the check engine light is back on. Okay, so is it really IMPOSSIBLE that the new catalytic convertor doesn't have a problem. Everything has gone wrong since this on got put on. I take to care in on Monday. Any suggestions? I have visions of the car in pieces all over the shop floor and an astronomical labor bill and they still won't replace the now 1 month old catalytic convertor.

It Wasn't Me

Have they bothered to check the harness connectors, test the ecu, and/or check the timing?

techtalk

gents97civ,

The actual replacement of the O2 sensor is actually relatively simple. The sensor simply threads into the exhaust.

It has a wire running to it. You have to disconnect the wire (there will be a connector in the wire near the sensor). Then all you have to do is use a wrench if there is enough room and unscrew the sensor from the exhaust. In some cases there isn't enough room for a regular wrench. They sell a special socket for use on O2 sensors at most auto parts stores such as O'Riley or AutoZone- just tell them you need an O2 sensor socket and they will most likely know what you need.

Once you get the old sensor out you just screw the new sensor in. Just be careful not to bang around the end of the new sensor. Plug the connector back in and you are ready to go.

Sometimes the wire for the sensor is zip-tied to something to keep it away from the exhaust. If you have to cut any of these to get the sensor off just ensure you strap it back up so it doesn't catch on anthing or fall against the exhaust.

The sensors in higher-mileage cars can be pretty tight in the exhaust thanks to rusting. It is usually easier to get them out if the exhaust is hot from extended periods of driving. Just be careful not to burn yourself if you are working around the hot exhaust.

$731 is a pretty redonkulous price for the entire job but I'm not the least bit surprised because hey- it's the stealership and charging you an arm and a leg for service is essentially their M.O. The M.S.R.P. for both sensors totals to $540 (no joke! I looked it up on http://www.hondapartsnow.com/Page_Pr...%20(SOHC/VTEC) and confirmed with my local dealer ) so that partially explains the excessive price that your dealer quoted you for the job but still..

It Wasn't Me

His post is from 2009. I don't think it's an issue anymore.

lisa-wilson

with my current and ongoing catalytic converter saga, I have been informed by Dobbs Honda of Memphis TN that Honda does not warranty its catalytic converters. (They so seldom break down they don't warranty replacement ones) So I would have to pay the full price to replace. this would be my second in 4 weeks,( 1000.00 in repairs after the first replacement were all directly due to the catalyic converter. They also "recommended" 1400.00 in work on the car -they never mentioned when they did the first diagnostic.
I declined told them I would be in on Wed to pick up the car and ransomed my car back by paying for 2 hours of diagnostic time, shop fees 238.00 and then had to wait 1 hour for them to put the car back in driving order they hadn't gotten it ready for pick up. Poor internal communication.
After 30 years as a Honda driver, I will never drive another Honda again. and take every chance I have to let others know how the company and its products have gone down hill. The man I sat across from was in a similar boat, his honda was only 2 years old he was waiting for a seat repair (under warranty, after dealing with brake repair, and 2 other repairs) He left to go down the road to trade in and buy a new Toyota. A plan I am now text driving to follow.

Okay next day, today - just to confuse the issue, (I am limitin driving the car to short distances) the check engine light goes OUT. I will be getting another car as soon as feasible, I will make peace with this one and move on. I am no longer a Honda believer. Sad Sad Sad.

95ttht

iTrader: (1)

A bad dealer doesn't mean it's a bad product. I recommend you find a local independent honda shop to help you in the future since you're out of warranty anyways there is no benefit to pay dealer pricing.

erikwithak86

^This^ Dealing with a shitty dealer doesn't mean the cars are bad. I find it surprising you would not buy another Honda after driving them for 20 years after dealing with one bad dealership.

Maybe if you feel you are getting hosed by this dealer you need to take it up the corporate chain.