Rust Removal Help (Not on body)

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10-25-2003, 05:04 AM

.jacob

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Rust Removal Help (Not on body)

Hi, I saw here on HT a long time ago a thread about a guy doing a Prlude 4 lug conversion on his black EK but I can't find the thread for the life of me. In the thread he used some sort of rust remover chemical to clean the rust off of the hubs, rotors, and I think the axle splines. I need to know what the name of the rust remover he used was.

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06-03-2006, 12:13 PM

JasonGhostz

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Rust Removal Product Reviews: Jasco Metal Etch, Naval Jelly, Gempler's, March's...

While working on my Rear Drum to Disc Brake Conversion (& Restoration), I've had to do some *MAJOR* rust removal. When I started, I wasn't much of a clean freak, I just hated rust. But with the ENTIRE surface of most of my parts crusted and rusted, I figured if I was going to go part of the way, I may as well go all the way... Ain't no half-steppin!!!

Before we get started...
Eyes, Hands, and Breathing must be protected (Safety Goggles, Nitrile/Latex Gloves, Proper Breathing Filter). Standard safety glasses are OK, most neighborhood auto shops will have the gloves, but I recommend buying something more than just some cheap 99 cent painter's mask. The fumes are noxious, and a simple painters mask just don't cut it.
READ ALL LABELS CAREFULLY. Be aware of how these products may affect the types of materials you'll be cleaning. Furthermore, you MUST know how to properly use and dispose of each product BEFORE attempting to use them.

Anyway, here are some of my experiences with these products...
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***** Jasco Metal Etch *****
Overall -
Jasco Metal Etch is a moderately priced, easy to use product. It is a fluid that contains Phosphoric Acid, which will react with rust as well as bare metal. You can find out more about the Health-related effects of Phosphoric Acid here (do an in-page search on "carcinogen"). This product will soften and darken rust, and will leave bare metal with a gray "primered" look (supposedly ready to coat, although I never did). Beware of how this product might affect the surface of whatever it touches (i.e. milled surfaces, composites, etc.). It will strip the surface of rust, grime, paint, *as well as any Zinc coating*.
Usage -
The fumes from this product are strong and noxious. These fumes *WILL* affect metal surfaces, but to a lesser extent than when applied directly. Keep this in mind.
The best technique for using this product is to soak the part completely. If this is not possible, application by brush may be used (but is a major PITA). Depending on the severity of rust, the item will not lose much in terms of it's structural integrity. If, however, you notice that there is heavy pitting or other deterioration as a result of the rust, use your best, most critical judgement in deciding whether to use that part.
JME can be diluted with water. Depending on the severity of your application, you can choose to what degree you do so. Always start with a highly diluted solution, and work its strength up. Remember to add ACID to WATER, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
This product will react with some plumbing, so don't just dump the excess down your drain. Soak and evaporate any excess with waste paper (using junk mail or newspaper, cut into confetti-like pieces, so it will dry faster), and then dispose.
After removing all rust, the item will be in a gray "primered" state. At this point, you can choose to brush it to a shiny, polished look, and/or coat it with the appropriate material. Either way, remember to oil the surface to help prevent flash rust from forming.
Pros -
Easy to use when soaking.
VERY effective when soaking.
Can be reused when soaking.
Removes Zinc coating for an even finish.
Available at many regular hardware stores.
Cons -
Applying by brush isn't as effective.
Requires *A LOT* of wire brushing if part cannot be soaked.
Not the safest to use/dispose of.

***** Loctite Naval Jelly *****
Overall -
Naval Jelly is a thicker substance, pink in color, and is good to use when soaking is not an option. *** It is carcinogenic ***, so be careful when using it. You can find out more about Naval Jelly here. It is available in different strentghs, and ounce for ounce, it is the most expensive (but can be used much more sparingly when applied). It is sold in a number of different sizes, and is best applied with an acid-ready brush.
Usage -
NJ is a very effective compound that's thicker than water, but more fluid than syrup. It works by "liquifying" the rust that it encounters, and softens the next layer until it reaches bare metal. Using this product requires many applications, with many rinse/clean/dry repetitions. Like JME, it will leave bare metal with a grayish topcoat that can be polished/primed. There are no instructions for dilution, as there are varying strengths available. When left on for too long, this stuff seems to develop a tough layer. Reapplication of it should soften it up again.
Pros -
Very good for items that can't be soaked, or are an odd shape.
Can be applied in a very small amount, in hard to reach places.
Sold in many hardware stores.
Cons -
CARCINOGENIC!
Requires a lot of maintenance (rinsing, etc).
Not practical to soak items.
Can be very expensive, depending on how much you need.

***** Gempler's Rust Remover *****
Overall -
Gempler's is a greenish liquid that has a mild vinegar-like odor. You can find out more about Gempler's Rust Remover here. The best way to use this product is by soaking, but it can also be applied by brush (very high maintenance for brushing, like JME). I discovered this product via Google, and have never seen it in any hardware store. It is available at http://www.gemplers.com where you can find MANY industrial-grade products/equipment (non-auto specific). This product is reusable (when soaking), until it either evaporates or loses effectiveness.
Usage -
This product is used similarly to JME. When used, it will leave the surface with a Zinc-like coating. This may or may not be the desired effect for you. After brushing, the item will still have a polished look, but will leave a dull appearance otherwise. For best results, I've found that using a wire brush after drying will leave the best finish.
Pros -
Remains very effective for a long time (a lot of reusability).
Good for soaking.
Will not affect bare metal/milled surfaces as much as other products (if at all).
Zinc-like coating helps protect items from future oxidation.
Cons -
Difficult to acquire (only available at the Gempler's website (see link above)).
Ounce for ounce, is not that expensive, but only available in larger sizes.
Leaves a Zinc-like coating.

***** March Formula Aluminum Cleaner And Wax *****
Overall -
I found this product at http://www.jegs.com , in their Car Care/Detailing section. You can read more about this product here.
This product is sold as a set, containing a Cleaning Solution and a Wax Polish Paste.
Usage -
Use of this product is a two-part procedure, first using the Cleaning Solution, and then applying and buffing the item with the Wax Compound. The Cleaning Solution comes in a VERY SMALL bottle, not enough to do what was needed for my project. The Wax Compound, in the same size bottle, was VERY effective in cleaning the de-rusted items. It seems to work by reacting to the dirt/residue from the Cleaning Solution (or any other non-metal molecules), and lifts the impurities from the surface. The Wax/Polish, in itself, can be used effectively to help clean whatever items you have, but the cost is difficult to justify. If the Wax/Polish Compound were sold separately, I would recommend it...
Pros -
Polish is very effective for finishing your item.
Cons -
VERY EXPENSIVE.
Comes in very small quantities
Works best for small items, or very few items, at best.
Not practical for soaking.

------------------------------------

Summary, General Notes:
The best product to use will greatly depend on the types of items with which you will be working. For small items like hardware, the fluid-type products provide the most effective means of working for you. Using the proper diluted solutions, you can soak these items, and brush/polish them to your liking. For irregularly shaped items, and/or items that can't be soaked, Naval Jelly seems to work most effectively. However, there is a much higher amount of maintenance when using NJ. March's Wax Compound (or similar) is a great "finishing" touch for all items, but is not readily available in stores, and is very expensive. For items with milled surfaces, I recommend *AGAINST* JME. If you leave JME on the surface of these items, it will eventually leave pit-marks on them. I recommend the Gempler's product and/or Naval Jelly for these surfaces (but continue to exercise caution, depending on your application). Gempler's will likely give the best results for items like Body Panels.

Regarding "Rust Converters" and "Rust Neutralizers", I would recommend against using these. Depending on the severity of your rust problem, these items are more of a temporary fix-it. For items with DEEP PITTING, these products will only affect the outter layer of rust, and will not ensure the problem won't continue to occur. Rust is a Cancer. And if you don't get rid of ALL OF IT, it will surely come back. These products can only help in covering up the problem at hand, and, in fact, may be worse to use because of the false confidence one might get in using them. GET RID OF THE RUST, DON'T JUST COVER IT UP.

In closing, there are a multitude of products out there that can help you with your project. The above are only a few that I have used, and are *MY* personal experiences with them. I recommend using a very small amount on a test-piece, or on a test-area, and drawing your own conclusions regarding its effectiveness. Always read the Product's Labels, and work in a well-ventilated workspace with the appropriate safety gear.

I hope this will help others in similar situations. GL and Be Safe!!!