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Old 12-01-2010, 09:28 PM   #1
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Icon2 Engine cranks but wont start. Bad programming?

Hello Honda-Tech community! I'm a Noob on this particular site, but I come to you educated Honda people to perhaps enlighten me with your vast knowledge. I have a 2003 Honda Accord V6-6sp Coupe with a hole where the navi was. Purchased it as a 'theft recovery' vehicle at an auto auction. It had no key, so I had the dealership cut me one, and an independent, but well respected locksmith program the key for me. The locksmiths fancy computer shows the key to be correctly programmed, but it wont start the car. The engine turns over but it wont start. I also get the green 'flashing key' light that continues to blink after the first several initial blinks with the ignition on. The locksmith says the antenna, that's supposed to pick up the signal from the key chip, doesn't detect the signal/key. I swapped the 'antenna' (the dark gray plastic box with a ring that fits around the ignition cylinder) from an 04 Accord, but still no luck. Can anyone shed some light on this issue? Which fuse(s) feed the power to the antenna? Is there any place I should look for a kill switch maybe? Any other issues that may possibly cause the car not to start? Thank you in advance.
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Old 12-02-2010, 04:45 AM   #2
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Default Re: Engine cranks but wont start. Bad programming?

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Originally Posted by Bulba View Post
Hello Honda-Tech community! I'm a Noob on this particular site, but I come to you educated Honda people to perhaps enlighten me with your vast knowledge. I have a 2003 Honda Accord V6-6sp Coupe with a hole where the navi was. Purchased it as a 'theft recovery' vehicle at an auto auction. It had no key, so I had the dealership cut me one, and an independent, but well respected locksmith program the key for me. The locksmiths fancy computer shows the key to be correctly programmed, but it wont start the car. The engine turns over but it wont start. I also get the green 'flashing key' light that continues to blink after the first several initial blinks with the ignition on. The locksmith says the antenna, that's supposed to pick up the signal from the key chip, doesn't detect the signal/key. I swapped the 'antenna' (the dark gray plastic box with a ring that fits around the ignition cylinder) from an 04 Accord, but still no luck. Can anyone shed some light on this issue? Which fuse(s) feed the power to the antenna? Is there any place I should look for a kill switch maybe? Any other issues that may possibly cause the car not to start? Thank you in advance.
I think your going to need a mechanic as you have no reference from when the car was last in running condition .

Ok , that said I would go back to basic's (fuel, ignition, cranking)
first Honda uses a imoblizer system which if not right key to ECU fuel pump will not run .
So first thing is after you put key in the position II do you hear fuel pump prime pressure for 2 sec (you can also check fuel pump relay if its getting power or fuel pressure at rail) .
2) check that the injectors and other ECU sensor are getting 12v .
3) check that the spark coil is getting power and producing a spark .

Those are basic's to get it running, have to pass all 3 or it will never start . you could also check for any kill switches or 3rd party alarms (see if you see any kind of harness splicing anywhere under dash or in engine compartment .

FWIW the ECU I think is right below center section, down by heater foot vents on tunnel (about a foot an half towards engine from shifter)
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:43 AM   #3
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Default Re: Engine cranks but wont start. Bad programming?

The key is not programmed (or programmed correctly). 2003+ Accords use a Type 4 immobilizer that uses a rolling code program. If a unprogrammed key is inserted and turned to "Start" the green "Immobilizer" light will flash.
If your independent shop can cut keys and program them for the 2002 earlier cars, more than likely he won't have the HDS to program newer keys. Get the car towed to your local dealer to get it done right. It should cost b/t $130-160 on the average (including programming). HTH
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:25 AM   #4
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Default Re: Engine cranks but wont start. Bad programming?

I have a 4 cyl. 2004 Accord Coupe, about two weeks ago I noticed it was taking longer for the car to start. I purchased a new battery a month before, worked fine, so I assume it's not the battery, lights aren't dimming etc. However, cold weather affects the starting and now that it's 35 degrees outside I am finding it won't crank over on the first try. I'm not sure if the fuel pump is running or not, but I did find it odd that I seem to have gotten 30 more miles per gallon than usual the last time I filled my tank up. Any suggestions? I have to go to NYC tomorrow and don't want to be stuck there! Please help!
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Old 12-02-2010, 11:28 AM   #5
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Default Re: Engine cranks but wont start. Bad programming?

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I have a 4 cyl. 2004 Accord Coupe, about two weeks ago I noticed it was taking longer for the car to start. I purchased a new battery a month before, worked fine, so I assume it's not the battery, lights aren't dimming etc. However, cold weather affects the starting and now that it's 35 degrees outside I am finding it won't crank over on the first try. I'm not sure if the fuel pump is running or not, but I did find it odd that I seem to have gotten 30 more miles per gallon than usual the last time I filled my tank up. Any suggestions? I have to go to NYC tomorrow and don't want to be stuck there! Please help!
When talking about taking long to start there two area's that need addressing .

1) Cranking normal speed (good battery/starter motor) and taking long to fire ,run .

2) Slow cranking speed and it starts fast with a battery jump .

The second can be caused by bad battery (get it load tested), bad starter motor or bad grounds (wireing/connections) . these all need checking with IMO connection corrosion and battery load test first .

If it cranks fast but just does not catch , see if any codes come up , could be fuel supply issue (pump, injectors ,filter , etc). Could also be sensor issue or ignition (check for codes first ) .
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Old 12-02-2010, 11:56 AM   #6
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Default Re: Engine cranks but wont start. Bad programming?

Thanks for your help. I think based on what you said it's probably 1) "Cranking normal speed (good battery/starter motor) and taking long to fire ,run ."
I haven't gotten any error codes so I can't check that, haven't had to jump start it yet, cross my fingers, but if I do I'll see if it starts quicker.
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Old 12-02-2010, 12:22 PM   #7
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Default Re: Engine cranks but wont start. Bad programming?

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Thanks for your help. I think based on what you said it's probably 1) "Cranking normal speed (good battery/starter motor) and taking long to fire ,run ."
I haven't gotten any error codes so I can't check that, haven't had to jump start it yet, cross my fingers, but if I do I'll see if it starts quicker.
Ok, here few things may help or pin down trouble .
First when starting in cold weather turn on key to II position and wait a sec or 2 then crank, what this does is let fuel pump time to prime fuel rail/injectors up to pressure. Another thing if above helps at all is toggle position II 2 times (off>II>off>II ) then crank with position III. this does same thing but more priming .
If above helps may check fuel pressure(pump and regulator) and filter condition .

Check connections for corrosion , places to see is battery, ground cable to frame , engine motor ground cables (front mount and or valve cover ground . With front mount ground what can happen is the actual mount bracket to motor head gets corrosion between the 2 surfaces (a voltage drop test can tell/show these kinds of issues .

Last edited by LPED; 12-02-2010 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 12-02-2010, 04:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: Engine cranks but wont start. Bad programming?

Thanks guys for your input. I figured I'd update my progress, however little it is. I checked the fuel pump when turning the ignition on. I can hear it pumping. Checked all the fuses and relays. All seems well. No third party wiring under the dash except for a fog light harness. So I had guy with fancy computer come out and check it out. He says the Immobilizer System won't enable the car to start also pointing out that the spark coil's aren't receiving a signal. Now, If the locksmith says the key is programmed and the other tech says the immobilizer is 'engaged', that leaves, IMO, little room too look for issues. Its either the key/ECU is programmed incorrectly or the antenna(s) won't pick up the signal. Any insight? What else is the immobilizer system affect?
Also, kinda off topic, but perhaps related: I cannot get the key fob programmed to the vehicle. I've programmed Honda's and Acura's before, but I can't seem to get this particular vehicle. I've printed off fresh instructions as well. I only have only one key. I've read on another forum that someone had to use the valet key in the ignition. Only then did they get the key fob programmed. I don't have a valet key to use. Suggestions?
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Old 12-03-2010, 05:05 AM   #9
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Default Re: Engine cranks but wont start. Bad programming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulba View Post
Thanks guys for your input. I figured I'd update my progress, however little it is. I checked the fuel pump when turning the ignition on. I can hear it pumping. Checked all the fuses and relays. All seems well. No third party wiring under the dash except for a fog light harness. So I had guy with fancy computer come out and check it out. He says the Immobilizer System won't enable the car to start also pointing out that the spark coil's aren't receiving a signal. Now, If the locksmith says the key is programmed and the other tech says the immobilizer is 'engaged', that leaves, IMO, little room too look for issues. Its either the key/ECU is programmed incorrectly or the antenna(s) won't pick up the signal. Any insight? What else is the immobilizer system affect?
Also, kinda off topic, but perhaps related: I cannot get the key fob programmed to the vehicle. I've programmed Honda's and Acura's before, but I can't seem to get this particular vehicle. I've printed off fresh instructions as well. I only have only one key. I've read on another forum that someone had to use the valet key in the ignition. Only then did they get the key fob programmed. I don't have a valet key to use. Suggestions?
If the Immobilizer System light in dash is flashing constantly while starting then its not working right .Good system would light for 2 sec with key on then go off once fired up.
Since this is a theft recovery check to see Immobilizer plug (7 wire) is pluged into ignition switch and not hacked up .
The only way to really check this out is with OEM manual and wire diagram . I would bring it to dealer to check Immobilizer System , there HDS system tool does a lot that other 3rd party tools won't/can't do .
Did you check for stored codes ?
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Old 12-03-2010, 10:13 AM   #10
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Default Re: Engine cranks but wont start. Bad programming?

^^Ditto, take it to the dealer. If the green light is flashing while the key is in the Start position, then it is NOT programmed. Also, if you cannot get the transmitter to work, then I think it is the wrong series key for your particular vehicle (bought on e-bay, perhaps??). I have seen this dozens of times where the customer will bring in their own key bought "outside" and we cannnot get the key to program. Like I said in my earlier post, the post '03 keys use a rolling immobilizer program while the '02 and earlier do not. Keys look identical on the outside...Good luck and let us know what you find out
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Old 12-03-2010, 10:33 AM   #11
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Default Re: Engine cranks but wont start. Bad programming?

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Its either the key/ECU is programmed incorrectly or the antenna(s) won't pick up the signal. Any insight? What else is the immobilizer system affect?
Open up the back of the key, taking care not to strip the screw. Look for the magnetic pickup near the base of the key (key head up, it should be just to the left of the key). I have seen several "aftermarket" keys missing this piece.
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Old 12-07-2010, 08:21 AM   #12
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Default Re: Engine cranks but wont start. Bad programming?

Another update: I had several people look at this issue and no one could fix it. More research showed that the immobilizer *could* be tied in with the radio/navi. So if the radio or navi didnt have the codes, the immobilizer would activate. Local Honda dealer (who knows me well) provides several codes until the correct codes were entered and the transmitter was correctly programmed. Still the car wouldn't run. So I took it to the dealer and had a service tech try to program the key. 5 minutes and it ran like clockwork When I asked the tech if he had any issues programming it, he said no. When I mentioned that a locksmith had tried to program it and said my antenna was bad, I replaced the antenna and still no luck, he then asked me if the ECM was original because the ECM wouldn't recognize the car So he reprogrammed the ECM to the VIN and bingo! Go figure... If the car sits for several weeks without a battery, can the ECM 'unprogram' itself or lose its memory?
Well in either case, Thank you all very much!
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Old 12-07-2010, 08:39 AM   #13
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Default Re: Engine cranks but wont start. Bad programming?

Glad you got it working. As posted the Honda dealer has tools most other places just won't cause of price point of HDS tools .
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:42 PM   #14
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Default Re: Engine cranks but wont start. Bad programming?

so im in sorta the same boat i bought a car its 2002 acura 3.2tl type s. i bought the car the kid lost the key and when trying to tow it to my house i popped the ignition to be able to unlock the steering wheel. i went to the junk yard picked up an ignition and re keyed the ignition to my ef key( haha sounds dumb but i saved a lil bit of money)

now when i turn the car to the on position the green key keeps flashing motor turns over but will not start and the green key keeps flashing. so this ignition system DOES require a chipped key? also would i be able to have the dealer make me a key according to the vin number and then go get that ignition switch re keyed by a lock smith to match original key?

please help i need to get this car running to get it out of the garage where my ef sleeps
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:19 PM   #15
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Default Re: Engine cranks but wont start. Bad programming?

Its been a while since I had my 2G TL but I'm pretty sure it had a chipped key. The dealer should be able to make you a key without any problems. You will need proof of ownership (vehicle title usually) and a photo ID. And a locksmith should be able to re-key the ignition as well to match to original key cut.
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