kevin512

Update:

I am still having oil consumption and cylinder misfiring issues. Last summer at 61K miles, Honda performed TSB 10-033 (PGM-FI software update) and replace the spark plug on cylinder #3.

Now I am at 68K miles. Last Friday, the check-engine light came on again and the car was running very rough and threatening to stall just like it did last fall. I dropped the car off at the dealer on Friday evening. This morning (Monday), a tech reported that it was running fine and there was no relevant codes.

Any idea why the code wouldn't be there?

In the meantime, I'm still burning oil at the rate of a quart every 1,500 miles and I really can't trust this car. Honda won't do the permanent fix (replace rings), unless the cylinder misfire code shows up.

Reachme

The issue as I understand it in my case was the timing was off on cylinder shutdown for better fuel consumption on highway, because timing was off it somehow caused excess oil consumption which fouled the plugs. When plugs got so fouled up it caused misfires. Misfires caused engine damage which scored cylinder walls.

Before a summer trip last summer I noticed oil was low by 2 quarts so I kicked myself and added it. Then brought the Pilot in last fall at 80K miles for misfire code, they found it had low oil again, replaced fouled plugs and reflashed to fix timing issue for VTEC and cylinder shutdown. They hoped it went away.

It just happened again, got misfire again at 90K probably because of damage the first time this happened. Honda also commented how the oil was down at 30%. The fix now is new cylinder rings. Upon inspection they are also replacing the block because of scoring- all this on their dime. thanks Honda!

I have found very little information about the details of the cause of this issue, what the flash actually does so I am appreciative to get a rebuilt engine at 90K miles, but I also don't know if this will happen again at any time.

All I can tell the next guy is make sure you have the latest code update. If so watch your oil consumption, if suddenly you need to add a lot of oil, then check your plugs. If those are fouled then you are on the way to destruction, make your time.

GoLowDrew

When the plugs went bad on mine, two plugs were bad. From what I read on the Odyssey side, BTW, it was my Odyssey since my Accord have less miles, most people replace two plus because the VCM runs at 4 cylinder more. However, I would not discount that it could be three plugs as the VCM also goes into 3 cylinder mode.

If they replaced one plug, and it's happening again, I'm guess it was just a matter of time before the other 2 go bad. If it was me, the next step I would do is to replace ALL the spark plugs at one time. So you start off fresh.

I plan to do that with my Odyssey (too).

GoLowDrew

Also, BTW, if the dealer did the work the first time on the plug and update, get your $$$ back.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-crosstour-2003-2012-118/honda-v6-misfire-settlement-2008-2012-a-3179571/

Read the details. I did my paperwork and got a written reply that my reimbursement has been approved.

Slegman29

Slegman29

It's just a matter of time. I fouled the number 3 cyl. At 30k 60k 90kand 113k. You need them to rebuild the engine, they replaced my rings on the rear cyl. They know of this problem and honda came out with a fix. Unlimited miles on this fix, not sure of time (years)

kevin512

Update:

It has been two months since I've had issues with misfiring on cylinder #3, but the oil consumption problems are still happening at the rate of a quart/1,500 miles. Since I am still burning oil, it seems inevitable it will happen again.

I am the original owner and have done all suggested maintenance on time (oil changed when MM hits 15% around 7K miles). I don't know if doing oil changes every 4-5K miles would have helped, but I don't feel that I should be punished for following Honda's advice.

I've had plugs changed once and two different software updates, had an oil consumption test, but Honda won't do the permanent fix until I have fouled plugs again or oil consumption exceeds a quart every 1,000 miles.

I realize some oil consumption is normal, but if the oil consumption is causing plugs to get fouled it really doesn't seem "normal" anymore.

In the meantime, I'm afraid to take this car out of town because I really can't trust it. It left me stranded twice in the last year with significant misfiring when I was out of town. At this point, I am hoping for fouled plugs again because I would like to have a permanent fix done and have a car I can trust to take out of town. In the meantime, I'll keep taking my Ford with 198K miles on it (which still doesn't burn oil) whenever I need to drive out of town.

Kevin512

jrm

Hello- I have a similar issue with my 2009, this is the closest thread to my issue so I will post it up here, while its not the dreaded #3 fouling issue mine has decided to completely shut down #4, 5 and 6! its acting like its stuck in ECO mode but no ECO light, plugs look perfectly dry- I cleared the codes, but they came back in under a minute of ideling and the ECM bumped the idle up to 1500
Hope someone knows whats up as the powertrain expired back in june

GoLowDrew

Have you guys gotten the update? When your plugs go back, the dealer also update the programing. It's also part of the class action lawsuit.

I had a bit of oil consumption. Like maybe 3/4 qt per 5-7K miles - my oil change interval.

Since I got the update in May, there has been zero lost in oil. Again, I didn't really have an consumption issue compare to you guys, but the update has made it "better."

I read that the VCM kicks in less with the update.

jrm

Dealer called, wiring harness needs replaced due to mice eating wires and causing cylinders 4,5 and 6 to not function. Problem was not caused by the TSB misfire problem (or at least that's what they say)

hondamike42

ya they will most likely cover the warranty if aftermarket plugs damaged the engine, misfire codes could be several different things, such as engine compression, burnt valve, vacuum leak, map or maf sensor or ecm problem, crank sensor, honda v6 can need valve adjustment or even lifters, or it could be moisture or water in coil or bad coil, swap the coils to see if it changes cyl code

kevin512

Update:

Honda eventually installed a new short-block last fall around 80K miles. First time since I owned the car that I haven't had to add oil between oil changes.

It was a HUGE hassle to get this fixed, but at least Honda finally did come through for me. Oil consumption was at 1 quart every 1,000 miles before getting new short block. Several instances of fouled-plugs and misfiring.

If you are having significant oil burning issues with the V6, here are the steps you want to take:

1) Get the software updates
2) If still burning oil, do an oil consumption test. The oil consumption test involves getting a fresh oil change and returning every 1,000 miles to measure the consumption.

ssg13e

I'm new to the forum but my Honda is having the exact same problem. I took it to the dealer in Parkville, MDm today on my bday, but thanks to the information found here, I had my information, TSB etc in order. They are replacing plugs 1-4 and doing the firmware update as the first step. I'm being charged $50 to replace the other 2 plugs. No problem since I'm close to 100k in miles. They indicated this is the first step however, I know it could be more damage.

My first 6-7 years the check engine light (CEL) would come on maybe 4 times. The manual directs me to tighten the fuel cap. That seems to work after the computer reset. Over the last 4 months, each time I filled the tank, the CEL would come on followed be the VSA. Again, I shut the car off, tighten the cap and waited for it to reset. I have 84500 miles on this car and it's in good shape. The problem not was it was happening all the time every few days.

I'm still going to follow up with the lawsuit just in case.

acurafan92

Hello guys,
This is very good thread and I was able to learn a lot regarding the misfiring problem.

Here is just a summary of the whole process that needs to be followed for folks who are just or about to be in this situation.

Having the same issue for some time and after replacing my spark plugs 2 times already, I dropped the vehicle (Accord 2010 V6 EX-L) at the dealership this morning.
They did proceed with TSB 10-033 (MIL Comes On With DTC P0300 Thru P0304) and replaced Cyl 1-4 spark plugs together with software update.

I am pretty sure problem will re-occur due to the extensive oil consumption I've been having the last several months. In case issue persists, next step will be TSB 13-078 (Warranty Extension: MIL Comes On With DTCs P0301 Through P0304) where they need to work on the engine to clean and replace piston rings in the affected cylinders. As it seems, the '08-'12 VCM system got major design flaw.

Hope this is helpful.

nobleach

I'm about to start on this journey today. My car is a 2009 Accord Ex-L 6 cyl. It has 152,000. I noticed my car jerking/missing a little on my daily 40 mile trip home on Friday. I let the car sit for the weekend, and when I started it up on Sunday... and started backing down the driveway, I noticed the orange VSA warning and the orange check engine light had come on. I pulled right back up into the garage, tossed by OBDII code reader on it and sure enough.... cylinder 3 misfire. I came inside and started doing some research. Many threads like this spelled doom and gloom. A couple of things I don't understand. Since I am too late to take part in the class action suit, does this mean that all repairs will be straight from my wallet? Is there an actual "fix" for this problem? I've read elsewhere that even replacing the block will cause all three catalytic converters to overheat (and cost a ton of money to replace... only to happen again - and none of that is covered by Honda) The post above gave me some hope that Honda might be able to do something helpful. In the end, I agree though, it's a flawed design... and I wish I had done better research before buying this car a month ago.

acurafan92

@nobleach I am not sure why you are saying you are too late. Please have in mind Honda already offered power train warranty extension to 8 years and no mileage limit. As long as your vehicle has not been declared total loss or salvage warranty will pay 100% for fixing the issue.

nobleach

The reason I'm saying it is because I simply have no idea how the process works. (I know what a class action lawsuit is. I was just fuzzy on the warranty extension part) You mentioned "salvage". My car was declared salvage at one point. It's since been rebuilt/restored. (as the title should note when it arrives by mail) Perhaps this could throw a monkey wrench into the whole process. I have an appointment on Thursday for the all day diagnostic test. I'll know more once that step takes place. I'm trying to maintain a positive outlook on this whole thing. It's a really nice car... but I realize, I should have done better research on potential problems before purchasing. Thanks for your reply.

93AcuraIntegraGSR

Hey folks,

Sorry for beating this issue to death, but I am a bit confused as well. Misfire on cyl 3 happened today on my 2011 accord v6.

I printed out the most recent TSB concerning this issue, I just take this to the dealer and see what they can do? and its all covered no cost to me?

Sorry for the noob questions, never had to deal with anything like this. Car is new to me bought it from the first owner a few months back. In love with it so far but this is scary to me.

Can someone respond with some reassurance lol

Thanks folks

nobleach

The way it worked for me, is I had to just start the process. Take the car to them with the Check Engine light on. They're aware of what's causing it, but they can't go right to the main fix. They have to do all the steps. They won't care if you bring a TSB or not (I actually recommend that you don't, their hands are tied on this issue) Their first step will be to change the plug, reprogram your ECU and top up your Oil.

When it happens again, then they will start to explore replacing parts.

And yes, it'll be no cost to you at all. It's covered under warranty.

93AcuraIntegraGSR

Understood, thank you for your quick response

will get the process started asap

much appreciated

nobleach

Definitely. I was very nervous to deal with it too. Guy at the dealership service counter knew exactly where I was headed when I mentioned the problem. He said, "I'm certain we're going to arrive at the same result you did with all of your research... but Honda will only allow us to handle it one way". When I picked it up, he said, "every one in awhile, the reprogramming of ECU helps... but most of the time, we see you again". What is the ultimate fix that your tech bulletin suggests? I knew they were suggesting replacing the short block. I think they have a newer one that suggests replacing other things.

93AcuraIntegraGSR

From what I understand the ultimate fix is replacing the pistons and rings.

the TSB says they change the foul plugs and update the software

If it happens again then they clean the pistons and rings

if it happens a 3rd time, then they replace pistons and rings.

But my questions is, replacing the block isnt the long term solution correct? If the VCM functionality is the real issue, and thats located in the head of the motor if I understand correctly, then this is going to happen all over again? Or the new pistons and rings are stronger than previous ones, I mean I don't see a long term solution besides installing a non VCM motor, which to my understanding comes only in the coupes with MT.

I'm still a bit all over the place from my reading about the issue. But going to take have it towed to the dealership tonight so we'll find out tomorrow!

nobleach

Honda has had a lot of time to investigate the best fix. I think the replacement of the block was the "big hammer" goto solution for those that came back after the ECU reprogramming didn't solve the problem. They found that it blew out the cat converters though. (Way too much heat). I'm sure you've read all of the different sites that I have... and your head is probably spinning like mine was. I can't make a suggestion for you, but I'm willing to drive my 2009 until it happens again... and again. I live 3 miles from the dealership, so it's not a big deal for me to just drive it over there. But that is not a solution for everyone. For those that cannot deal with having a broken car, I'd suggest raising a big enough stink that Honda gives you a heck of a deal on something else. The irony is, I still have a 1997 Accord sitting in the garage between my 2009 and my 2004 Odyssey... and it they still run just fine.

93AcuraIntegraGSR

Yeah I see what your saying. This is the 4th accord I've had as a DD over the years so I certainly trust their vehicles. I also have an RSX, and knock on wood, never given me any major issues.

I'm not giving up just yet, I'll take the risk and continue to drive after they go through their mandatory process, I'm not looking forward to expecting problems....I guess thats the strange part mentally to get over that I have a Honda with a potential significant problem. But its a machine what can you do.

Only concern is where is it going to misfire again and how far from home, playing the towing/rental car game is not fun.

Anyways thanks again I appreciate your help. Def made me feel better about this

acurafan92

Following up here. Car misfired again and that was expected (attached image visualizes the spark plug condition and the issue). For around 1,000 miles oil went down from max to beyond the min point of the dipstick.
Dealership performed procedure B of TSB 13-078 which means that piston rings on cylinders 1-3 were replaced. Now car seems back to normal, time will show whether this will be permanent fix.