bchristian

I understand what you’re saying DCFIVER. However the dealership is doing a poor job of relaying a message to the customer. I could live with the answer by a technician saying, “I performed X test and got 97% efficiency, that is probably why your codes are being triggered”. I could also live with, “I just treated a similar application for the same symptoms and it appears the problem is resolved”. Instead the dealer won’t comment on if they ever put 2 cats on a car at the same time for any reason. I cannot even get the dealer to confirm what parts are working correctly such as A/F sensor, Oxygen sensors, front cat, exhaust pipes, spark plugs…Likewise I heard suggestions of bad gas and other technical regurgitations from other people.

What is your source for that 99% efficiency number? I would like to learn more about the topic.

I went to the dealership on Wednesday to request 2 things from the GM. 1) confirm the tech received all my data delivered to the service advisor to assist in the tech’s diagnosis 2) a diagnosis. The GM said he would call me on Thursday. No one contacted me. I then call the GM on Tuesday this week and ask for an update. He confirmed the tech received my data and notes. Then I asked for the diagnosis. He responded, “the tech recommends replacing the rear cat first”. I said but what is the diagnosis? He said “the tech recommends replacing the rear cat first”. I then said so there is no diagnosis? He said “the tech recommends replacing the rear cat first”. I said thanks and hung up.

So I paid $135 for a diagnosis fee. At this point, I have:
no diagnosis
no explanation of the tests performed
no advising on what parts are functioning correctly
no rational on why parts need to be replaced

At this point I don’t know if the tech spent 8 hours with my car or 8 minutes. Is there a legal or pride element I am missing here? Is the dealer at risk should they suggest an unfounded diagnosis? Likewise are they required to make a recommendation no matter what the circumstances are? Is the tech afraid to say I don’t know or I am not sure?

I just have no logic for why the dealer is acting the way they are especially when the customer is being polite, understanding, transparent, and helpful. I just think they want me to go away and I would say mission accomplished.

DCFIVER

Training. Many OEMs offer training to their technicians and the aftermarket alike.
At this point you are really wasting your time. The dealership environment does not foster good diagnostic developmental habits. As such there are very few true "diagnostic" techs at the dealers anymore. I worked in the dealership my first 7 years, so I know exactly how things are run.


Consider it a $135 lesson learned and move on. Use Google, Yelp,etc and find a good independent shop in your area. Many shops only work on Hondas/Acuras and are as good as ,if not better ,than many dealerships.




Good luck.

bchristian

Finally closure and the repair is complete as of 2 weeks ago. I had a fuel injection specialist instructor who works for the community college verify that both catalysts needed to be replaced. This was the 4th opinion. I ordered OEM parts from Bernardi Honda. Front and rear converter, and gaskets came in at approximately $1,000. I installed the front myself to save on labor. I had Honda in Lisle install the rear as I was intimidated by the intermediate shaft removal. Overall parts and labor was $1,350 as compared to the dealer quoted $2300. After installing the front catalyst I reset the check engine light but it returned. So the rear was defiantly an issue. Not sure if I only did the rear bank catalyst if that would have bought me more time. However I had 4 opinions that said both. Fuel economy is now back to mid to low 30s.

bchristian

I also could have probably got by without new gaskets but I was concerned about leaks and poor fitment. The cost was minimal for specialized gaskets. The nuts can be fragile if rusted but mine were spotless. I went to menards and replaced all the exhaust nuts on the bottom of the system. I had to use a craftsman damaged bolt remover socket. The heads of the OEM exhaust nuts are tiny and nearly vanish with rust and road grime. I just bought nuts with a larger head. I prepped with a dremmel, Steel mesh bit, and Pb Blaster. No torch required but I could assume many need to resort to one. Thanks all for your input.

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

So the dealer/tech you questioned was right? Go figure. Sounds like you could have saved yourself a **** ton of time.

bchristian

TheMuffinMan:
Yes, the technician was correct.
Yes, it was time consuming to get a resolution.

The cost benefit is that I saved nearly $1,000 by dragging the situation out over 2 months, buying my own parts, and doing some of the labor. I also had other vehicles to drive while I let the individuals perform diagnostics. I guess it depends on how you value a dollar, if you are patient or not, if you want to understand the issue or not, and what is your repair timeframe required.

I also had to make sure this wasn't a death blow for this car. After a certain point, it may not have been worth it to repair the car and I could have traded it in. In my case I am keeping the car a while.

If the judge asks you, "should you send this guy to jail" and you say, "send the guy to jail". Then the judge asks you "why do you think he should go to jail?". You respond "just send the guy to jail".

The dealer's staff could not explain anything to me which left me questioning their judgment. It should have been simple. The conversation should have went, "I performed x test(s), the result(s) indicated Y. I ruled out Z part(s). Therefore, it is my opinion you should Q".

There are other benefits are for the individuals that read this post. The MIL codes were spot on and you can rely on them in this application. Also, there were no visual indicators of deterioration. An oscilloscope was required to confirm any issue.

DCFIVER

It was not. Scope captures are redundant to scan data. All of the needed information is in the data.
I diag vehicles with scan data daily,and very rarely need to use a scope anymore.





In any case, good thing you didn't needlessly buy O2 sensors and had the vehicle properly repaired......

bchristian

My scan tool had the abiliy to graph V for the O2 sensor and mV for the air fuel sensor. However it could not demonstrate a clear scale on the tiny screen where it made it obvious to a lay person there was an issue with the voltage patterns. What kind of scan tool are you using as a professional?

DCFIVER

Several.

My Snap on Solus Ultra is my first grab,however there are times where I need to grab the Honda HDS. It is a dealer scanner.
(All dealer scan tools have laptop based programs and require a yearly subscription as well as a dedicated connector and laptop, unless one opts to buy the dealer specific hardware)

bchristian

DCFIVER you are way on another level with tools than I. I was using an Actron CP9580. Your using the 2 top of line tools on the market. The fuel injection specialist I consulted had to go home and grab his Honda HDS in order to finalize his diagnosis. It was fortunate he had access to such tools.

DCFIVER

Well it IS what I do for a living.....



Well,glad it turned out well for you. Many people are not as diligent as you,and cry foul AFTER it is all said an done.