kenzo42

1) How does bolt "A" allow the tensioner to pivot? Is it a special bolt or a regular one?

holmesnmanny

It just allows the shaft to pivot til you tighten then tensioner bolt to specs after allowing the springs to set tension after moving the crank bolt so that the camshaft moves three teeth after setting tdc. That bolt isnt that tight to begin with.

MAD_MIKE

Yeop. Tensioner pulley has a slot in it to allow up/down adjustment.

kenzo42

So can I remove this spring after setting the tension?

MAD_MIKE

The spring is left in situ.
Only part that is installed/removed when setting the belt tension is the timing belt cover bolt that is borrowed to set the camshaft timing belt tension.

kenzo42

I guess my question is, why leave the spring if serves no function? It's locked into place by the pivot bolt "A" which in the helms appears to be a regular bolt.

If it is not a regular bolt, is allowed to pivot, and have variable tension due to the spring, then I'd understand why leaving it is important.

masospaghetti

Bolt A is a shoulder bolt, it tightens down against the front cover, not against the balancer arm. The balancer arm can pivot even with bolt A fully tightened down.

GhostAccord

That being said, once the balance belt "Adjusting Nut" has been tightened, the arm no longer moves.

So to answer the OP's second question. Yes you could remove the spring once the belt has proper tension and the adjusting nut has been tightened. Question is, why would you? Did you loose it or just want to shave 0.001oz off the curb weight?

kenzo42

I went back and took it all apart again.

"A" pivot bolt does pivot even when tightened down. There is a shoulder on the bolt that allows this movement. It is not a normal bolt like the helms shows.

GA, you are correct that once the adjusting nut is tightened down that belt tension will not change.

I believe the reason why you leave the springs there is because there is access to the adjusting nut through the timing cover. This allows you to re-tension the belt in case the belt becomes slack, without ever having to take the whole thing apart.

I always thought the springs offers constant tension to the belt when in fact it's only used for initial timing belt tension. I think I could easily just use a clothes hanger instead of buying new springs. I felt the balance belt spring was especially useless and offered no tension of any kind.

MAD_MIKE

The spring gives proper tension to the belt. You do not want to manually force the belt tighter as this will preload the bearings, which can cause excessive wear on the bearings and belt. Plenty of other makes use the spring to properly set tension of the belt and are left in situ. No need to 'fix' this. Only replace the spring with a new spring if need be.

kenzo42

Unless I got a faulty spring, there was no tension placed on the balancer belt after turning the crank CCW a couple of times. It was very loose, as in ~1 inch of deflection. Everything was OEM. Not sure what happened then.

holmesnmanny

Ur supposed to turn the crank so the cam moves 3 teeth. Then loosen the adjusting bolt and immediately tighten it.

The balancer belt is normally more loose than the timing belt.

masospaghetti

I had the same issue, my balancer belt spring had almost no tension at all. I even tried a new spring from Honda thinking my spring was stretched out - same thing.

I think the balancer belt can be pretty loose because the balance shafts aren't loaded, so the belt doesn't have much force on it.

MAD_MIKE

On my B1 there was nothing like the slop you mentioned. Are you sure the belt was the correct one? Positive the lever did not slip off the adjustment idler?

kenzo42

Now that I think about it, the belts were Mitsuboshi. The springs were OEM. I'm certain everything was installed correctly. This was my 3rd time doing it.

1) Installed but crank seal leaked
2) Replaced crank seal, but with no timing covers to visualize if anything was leaking
3) Reinstalled everything with covers

The only thing that I notice is that when I shift from REVERSE to D4 and turn my steering wheel, sometimes the PS won't work instantly. There will be a lag of ~1 second. Any ideas what may cause this? Belt is not squealing upon start.

holmesnmanny

Explain exactly how you are properly tensioning the belts from tdc.

kenzo42

Springs are installed. Install timing belt.

Loosen tensioner bolt 1 turn. Spin crank CCW 5 times. I find TDC - Cam sprocket and crank pulley are lined up TDC. I turn crank CCW so cam sprocket turns 3 teeth. Tighten tensioner bolt. Lock the timing belt tensioner w/ 10mm bolt and loosen tensioner bolt again.

For the balance belt, I first install balance belt. I turn crank 1 revolution CCW and tighten. However, usually the belt is too loose so I push down on the tensioner a bit and tighten the tensioner bolt.

Remove the timing 10mm belt tensioner lock bolt.

holmesnmanny

The lock bolt is only there to hold the balance belt until you get the timing belt on. That's the only job of it.

This is how you properly tension the belts. First, install both belts. Second, turn the crank bolt ccw until the engine is at tdc. Third, turn the crank bolt until the cam shaft moves 3 teeth. Fourth, loosen the adjusting bolt half a turn. Fifth, tighten the adjusting bolt to spec(should be about 22lbs/inch).

And you're done.

You do not, in any manner, add any of your own movement to the adjuster with your hands etc etc. I can not be any more clearer. That's what the springs are for.

You will have a better understanding of how the springs work when you do it the right way. Just watch them as you move the crank bolt til the cam shaft moves 3 teeth.

kenzo42

I thought about doing it your way, but decided to just do it the way the Helm recommended. Everything is running fine. It's just the powersteering lag during Rev to D4 shift. I need to check the tension and fluid level.

holmesnmanny

My way is the way Helms recommends it. Mine is for 4th gen accords and prelude h23a1's.

I don't really see it being any different for your 5th gen.

It looks like, going by your initial post, that the adjusting bolt is actually 22lb

uDraft

On the Gen5, there's no need to back off the crank 3 teeth, you simply allow the spring to tension the belt with the nut loose. Both the belts will be a tad loose compared to some other cars (subjective, I know). There shouldn't be near enough slop to jump teeth.
The belt on your power steering on the other hand likes to be real tight.

kenzo42

So I drove my accord about 100 miles today and I could hear some squealing. Can I loosen the tension and apply the proper tension if:

1) I set to TDC
2) Turn 3 teeth CCW on camshaft
3) Loosen long adjusting nut protruding out of cover
4) Tighten long adjusting nut protruding out of cover

I believe this should fix my overtightened belts. Can anyone verify?

Thanks

GhostAccord

Timing belt is a toothed belt. if you hear something squealing under your hood, I would look at replacing/tightening one of your accessory belts, not the timing belt.

wagon97

Yes, same as post above I had a hard time trusting setting the timing belts as per Honda. I first set them by feel getting them nice and snug. I did not have any squealing or anything but got nervous I might cause problems by being to tight. So I went back and did exactly what you are doing now by readjusting by Honda spec. There are a lot of DIY videos showing people adjusting tension by feel. I guess technically is not correct.

As long as the belts cannot be easily pulled off pulley I believe it is fine. It should take two hands with some effort to be able to slide belt off cam pulley. IMO

The other thing that confused me was that Bolt B from above. I believe that bolt really shouldn't be there. A bolt should only be used for installing a new belt then removed like mentioned above. If left in you wont be able to adjust tension as per Honda or if you want to readjust like you are doing now or even a year from now.

When I did my timing belt that bolt B was installed and locked tight. I removed it after installing my belt.

Good Luck

belairbrian

Amazing that people figure they know better how to adjust the belts than the engineers that designed the system . Not saying engineers get it right every time, but there is a system for techs to provide feedback and procedures get updated.

I trust that system a lot more than a guy on youtube.

And over tension can cause a squeal as the bearing binds from damage on the back side idler pulleys.