Testing the EGR system while driving
#1
Testing the EGR system while driving
M/Y Honda: 95 Ex, Vtec, AT, Abs, 4 Dr, 163K
I'm experiencing a shudder at light throttle. It was suggested in the archives that symptom is caused by clogged up EGR ports, and test to determine whether clogged EGR are the cause is to remove the EGR Hose and plug it. Which EGR Hose are they referring to, they are all over the engine in various places. Are they talking about the hose from the throttle intake tubing that goes right to the EGR valve (the valve by the fuel rail passengers side)? And when you plug the hose, do you also plug the EGR part that the hose was attached to? I'm thinking yes to both, but I only read about plugging the hose. Just trying to pay attention to detail and do the test correctly, because this will be driving test, not at idle.
I'm experiencing a shudder at light throttle. It was suggested in the archives that symptom is caused by clogged up EGR ports, and test to determine whether clogged EGR are the cause is to remove the EGR Hose and plug it. Which EGR Hose are they referring to, they are all over the engine in various places. Are they talking about the hose from the throttle intake tubing that goes right to the EGR valve (the valve by the fuel rail passengers side)? And when you plug the hose, do you also plug the EGR part that the hose was attached to? I'm thinking yes to both, but I only read about plugging the hose. Just trying to pay attention to detail and do the test correctly, because this will be driving test, not at idle.
#2
Former Moderator
Re: Testing the EGR system while driving
I'm going to assume you're referring to the 95 Accord EX in your signature, so if it's a different car I'm about to post some non applicable info lol.
Sorry for the crappy reference pics - they're usually much better.
To check for clogged ports you'll need to apply vacuum (with a vacuum pump as seen in the diagram) to the EGR valve - note that you actually apply vacuum to the 90 degree port coming off of the valve, not to the hose in this pic.
This is assuming that you have no check engine code 12 indicating a bad EGR valve.
You can also check to make sure the EGR valve is working by applying vacuum to it directly on the 90 degree elbow that you pulled the #16 hose from, and feel/see/hear if it engages or not. You should have a check engine code 12 if the EGR valve is bad though.
Sorry for the crappy reference pics - they're usually much better.
To check for clogged ports you'll need to apply vacuum (with a vacuum pump as seen in the diagram) to the EGR valve - note that you actually apply vacuum to the 90 degree port coming off of the valve, not to the hose in this pic.
This is assuming that you have no check engine code 12 indicating a bad EGR valve.
You can also check to make sure the EGR valve is working by applying vacuum to it directly on the 90 degree elbow that you pulled the #16 hose from, and feel/see/hear if it engages or not. You should have a check engine code 12 if the EGR valve is bad though.
Last edited by B18C5-EH2; 08-13-2010 at 01:12 PM.
#3
Re: Testing the EGR system while driving
I'm going to assume you're referring to the 95 Accord EX in your signature ... To check for clogged ports you'll need to apply vacuum (with a vacuum pump as seen in the diagram) to this vacuum hose coming off of the EGR valve ... You can also check to make sure the EGR valve is working by applying vacuum to it directly on the 90 degree elbow that you pulled the #16 hose from, and feel/see/hear if it engages or not
#4
Former Moderator
Re: Testing the EGR system while driving
Yes, its a 95 EX Vtec. Your making the wrong assumption and talking about a different test. I have to do a driving test to determine if a shudder symptom while driving is caused by the clogged ports. This does not happen at idle and cannot be determined at idle. It requires a road test. So, I'm not sure if the hose I need plugged is the same one your pic is showing. Back to square one. Pay attention to adjectives.
Would you not like to first see if the ports are stopped up? The test I posted does just that.
If you want to be a jerk about me trying to help you then good luck fumbling around trying to fix your car ALONE, because nobody wants to help a jerk.
Last edited by B18C5-EH2; 08-13-2010 at 01:27 PM.
#5
Former Moderator
Re: Testing the EGR system while driving
BTW:
The only testing associated with EGR and actually test driving the car involves warming the engine up until the fans cycle at least once, then driving the car for 10 minutes to simply see if an EGR code 12 comes on from the ECU:
Most everything else EGR TESTING related comes down to various vacuum testing, and checking for continuity, etc. etc. There really is not an actual test driving procedure to check the EGR system itself.
Recheck the HELM manual for any road testing procedures associated with actually testing the EGR system - you shouldn't find any.
Might I remind you that you are the one asking for help here. Don't be so condescending when someone tries to help you, especially when the question you are asking doesn't follow Honda/HELM flow charts.
Now if you are trying to do some test that someone has figured out over the years that tosses the actual EGR testing procedures (from Honda) out the window, then yeah I'll admit I am ignorant there.
The only testing associated with EGR and actually test driving the car involves warming the engine up until the fans cycle at least once, then driving the car for 10 minutes to simply see if an EGR code 12 comes on from the ECU:
Most everything else EGR TESTING related comes down to various vacuum testing, and checking for continuity, etc. etc. There really is not an actual test driving procedure to check the EGR system itself.
Recheck the HELM manual for any road testing procedures associated with actually testing the EGR system - you shouldn't find any.
Might I remind you that you are the one asking for help here. Don't be so condescending when someone tries to help you, especially when the question you are asking doesn't follow Honda/HELM flow charts.
Now if you are trying to do some test that someone has figured out over the years that tosses the actual EGR testing procedures (from Honda) out the window, then yeah I'll admit I am ignorant there.
#6
Re: Testing the EGR system while driving
Wow I'm sensing some attitude from you that is absolutely NOT necessary. Would you not like to first see if the ports are stopped up? The test I posted does just that. If you want to be a jerk about me trying to help you then good luck fumbling around trying to fix your car ALONE, because nobody wants to help a jerk.
No, I absolutely do not want to test those ports that way. I did THAT many moons ago.
I JUST need to know the location of the hose to plug for the shudder driving test, so I can evaluate that as a cause.
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#8
Re: Testing the EGR system while driving
BTW:
The only testing associated with EGR and actually test driving the car involves warming the engine up until the fans cycle at least once, then driving the car for 10 minutes to simply see if an EGR code 12 comes on from the ECU:
Most everything else EGR TESTING related comes down to various vacuum testing, and checking for continuity, etc. etc. There really is not an actual test driving procedure to check the EGR system itself.
Recheck the HELM manual for any road testing procedures associated with actually testing the EGR system - you shouldn't find any.
Might I remind you that you are the one for help here. Don't be so condescending when someone tries to help you, especially when the question you are asking doesn't follow Honda/HELM flow charts.
Now if you are trying to do some test that someone has figured out over the years that tosses the actual EGR testing procedures (from Honda) out the window, then yeah I'll admit I am ignorant there
The only testing associated with EGR and actually test driving the car involves warming the engine up until the fans cycle at least once, then driving the car for 10 minutes to simply see if an EGR code 12 comes on from the ECU:
Most everything else EGR TESTING related comes down to various vacuum testing, and checking for continuity, etc. etc. There really is not an actual test driving procedure to check the EGR system itself.
Recheck the HELM manual for any road testing procedures associated with actually testing the EGR system - you shouldn't find any.
Might I remind you that you are the one for help here. Don't be so condescending when someone tries to help you, especially when the question you are asking doesn't follow Honda/HELM flow charts.
Now if you are trying to do some test that someone has figured out over the years that tosses the actual EGR testing procedures (from Honda) out the window, then yeah I'll admit I am ignorant there
Can someone else please help me here. I tried reasoning with this person but he/she keeps insisting there is no such test. I suppose all the guys at this thread were just making this all up. What more can I do. It is getting me nowhere fast.
Anyway, perhaps someone else knows which hose and part to plug up for the driving test? See this link:
https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...hlight=shudder
#9
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#10
Re: Testing the EGR system while driving
Duane in Japan said this about testing the shudder problem on light throttle while driving"
"... disconnect the EGR vacuum hose and plug it and see if the problem goes away." See > honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2119837&highlight=shudder <
Notice he did not say the egr valve, if he did I'd know where that was. He only said egr vacuum hose without specifying which one, and there are multiple egr vacuum hoses all over that engine, especially at the drivers side.
Last edited by AtoZ; 08-15-2010 at 02:08 PM.
#12
#13
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Re: Testing the EGR system while driving
He keeps telling there is no test, because there is no test. There are few people on H-T with as much professional experience working on Hondas that B18C5-EH2, the guy has been working at a Honda/Acura only shop for something like 10 years (and IIRC used to work for a honda dealership before that) And while that doesn't necessarily make someone a good mechanic, I can certainly vouch for Tom knowing his stuff.
#14
Re: Testing the EGR system while driving
Yes, there is only one to "that" valve but there are like a minimum of three EGR system parts with hoses to them; an EGR Vacuum Control Valve; EGR Control Solenoid Valve; and EGR Valve, not to mention the Evap System Controls. So, please dont waste my time your really not being helpful if your not reading the entire thread. I'm trying to determine which of those three hoses that was plugged up. It may very well be the EGR Valve hose, but I am not going to assume that until I know for sure.
Last edited by AtoZ; 08-14-2010 at 11:44 AM.
#15
Re: Testing the EGR system while driving
He keeps telling there is no test, because there is no test. There are few people on H-T with as much professional experience working on Hondas that B18C5-EH2, the guy has been working at a Honda/Acura only shop for something like 10 years (and IIRC used to work for a honda dealership before that) And while that doesn't necessarily make someone a good mechanic, I can certainly vouch for Tom knowing his stuff.
Until then think about it this way. What is the point of doing the BC18 test twice!? I already did it and know the results -- been there done that. The test Duane suggested is the next logical thing to do. It helped one person discover the cause. So, I cannot see where one thing you said is logical or valid.
Last edited by AtoZ; 08-15-2010 at 10:42 AM.
#16
Former Moderator
Re: Testing the EGR system while driving
Originally Posted by AtoZ
Can someone else please help me here. I tried reasoning with this person but he/she keeps insisting there is no such test. I suppose all the guys at this thread were just making this all up. What more can I do. It is getting me nowhere fast.
Originally Posted by Me
Now if you are trying to do some test that someone has figured out over the years that tosses the actual EGR testing procedures (from Honda) out the window, then yeah I'll admit I am ignorant there.
Originally Posted by AtoZ
I'm not questioning BC18's expertise on anything else but no one knows everything and Duane in Japan has never steered me wrong and has been the only person to suggest this test I referred to.
Originally Posted by AtoZ
Until then think about it this way. What is the point of doing the BC18 test twice!? I already did it and know the results -- been there done that.
Are the ports clogged, or not?
I could deduct that they must be clogged if you're trying to do a test that pinpoints whether clogged ports are causing your stumble. If you cleaned the ports then I'd imagine there would be no point in this "driving EGR test" you're trying to find more info for.
I'm just curious why you don't clean the ports anyway? I mean it very well might not be your stumble, but there's no real mechanical reason NOT to clean the ports. you seem like a bright guy with some mechanical abilities, and fortunately your model engine isn't one of the harder ones to clean ports on.
This reminds me of someone who is in desperate need of a tune-up (and refuses to do one) and yet wants to try and see why the car feels sluggish upon acceleration.
Originally Posted by AtoZ
The test Duane suggested is the next logical thing to do. It helped one person discover the cause.
#17
Former Moderator
Re: Testing the EGR system while driving
BTW:
Reading Duane's post you linked, and reading some of the responses that followed his it should have been obvious to you that he means pull off the vacuum hose from the EGR valve itself and plug it off. You're way over analyzing this. Refer back to the pic I originally posted, and unplug that vacuum hose and stuff a bolt in it to do the test Duane in Japan referred to.
Reading Duane's post you linked, and reading some of the responses that followed his it should have been obvious to you that he means pull off the vacuum hose from the EGR valve itself and plug it off. You're way over analyzing this. Refer back to the pic I originally posted, and unplug that vacuum hose and stuff a bolt in it to do the test Duane in Japan referred to.
#18
Re: Testing the EGR system while driving
I'm just curious why you don't clean the ports anyway? I mean it very well might not be your stumble, but there's no real mechanical reason NOT to clean the ports. you seem like a bright guy with some mechanical abilities, and fortunately your model engine isn't one of the harder ones to clean ports on.
I didnt miss it. Its says but it doesnt specify exactly. I really pay close attention to the wording in these threads. Too many people make too many assumptions when they think they're communicating. I'm always saying who? what? when? where? So, when I read about "this" egr related hose, all the thread said was to remove the egr hose. So, naturally I thought, which one, there are three egr parts that have hoses to them? I bet that the guy most likely means the egr valve hose BUT I dont want to assume anything. Too many problems when I do that. Its always what your not told that can cause a major problem.
Now your making asumptions, how do you know they did not have PM's between them !? And yes, this does appear to be some test outside the box, what's wrong with that if the tech who gave the advice is correct ... Now back to which hose ?
Last edited by AtoZ; 08-15-2010 at 11:14 AM.
#19
Re: Testing the EGR system while driving
BTW:
Reading Duane's post you linked, and reading some of the responses that followed his it should have been obvious to you that he means pull off the vacuum hose from the EGR valve itself and plug it off. You're way over analyzing this. Refer back to the pic I originally posted, and unplug that vacuum hose and stuff a bolt in it to do the test Duane in Japan referred to.
Reading Duane's post you linked, and reading some of the responses that followed his it should have been obvious to you that he means pull off the vacuum hose from the EGR valve itself and plug it off. You're way over analyzing this. Refer back to the pic I originally posted, and unplug that vacuum hose and stuff a bolt in it to do the test Duane in Japan referred to.
Last edited by AtoZ; 08-15-2010 at 10:48 AM.
#20
Re: Testing the EGR system while driving
Are you on drugs? Take a look at the egr vacuum routing in the under hood labels for these vehicles.
Yes, there is only one to "that" valve but there are like a minimum of three EGR system parts with hoses to them; an EGR Vacuum Control Valve; EGR Control Solenoid Valve; and EGR Valve, not to mention the Evap System Controls. So, please dont waste my time your really not being helpful if your not reading the entire thread. I'm trying to determine which of those three hoses that was plugged up. It may very well be the EGR Valve hose, but I am not going to assume that until I know for sure.
Yes, there is only one to "that" valve but there are like a minimum of three EGR system parts with hoses to them; an EGR Vacuum Control Valve; EGR Control Solenoid Valve; and EGR Valve, not to mention the Evap System Controls. So, please dont waste my time your really not being helpful if your not reading the entire thread. I'm trying to determine which of those three hoses that was plugged up. It may very well be the EGR Valve hose, but I am not going to assume that until I know for sure.
#22
#23
Re: Testing the EGR system while driving
If you think the ****ing hoses are clogged then take them off and ****ing clean them out you dumb ****. Don't go calling me retarded for suggesting there's only one hose going to the ****ing egr valve, then turn around and admit that there's one ****ing hose going to the egr valve. Who's the real moron?
#24
Re: Testing the EGR system while driving
I've read this entire thread.
First, I would like to ask the original poster; at what point did you decide that people who work their asses off all day long working on cars have any obligation to report to this website and help rude ******** such as yourself, or anyone for that matter?
I've been a master tech at a Honda dealership for quite some time now and I have never recieved any sort of compensation for any of the assistance I have provided the countless people who use this website. I have never asked for anything in return for my help. But, I refuse to help someone who comes here demanding help and being extra rude on top of that fact.
You, sir, will recieve no such help from me. I suggest you either figure it out yourself or pay a REAL technician to fix it for you.
First, I would like to ask the original poster; at what point did you decide that people who work their asses off all day long working on cars have any obligation to report to this website and help rude ******** such as yourself, or anyone for that matter?
I've been a master tech at a Honda dealership for quite some time now and I have never recieved any sort of compensation for any of the assistance I have provided the countless people who use this website. I have never asked for anything in return for my help. But, I refuse to help someone who comes here demanding help and being extra rude on top of that fact.
You, sir, will recieve no such help from me. I suggest you either figure it out yourself or pay a REAL technician to fix it for you.
#25
Re: Testing the EGR system while driving
The funny thing is that you called me a retarded, then basically reiterated the fact that there is only 1 vacuum hose going to the EGR valve. That speaks volumes about your character.
Like phootbag said, go ask someone that knows what they're doing, because clearly nobody here knows what they're doing.