TypeSH

ahh crao... car just wouldnt start yesterday and all it does is make a screeching/scratching sound when I turn the key. I eventually got an AAA guy who push started my car, and need to know a few things. This is a 1994 Accord EX, 5 spd, pretty much stock everything and 157k miles.

I *think* its the starter, but is there anything else that could be bad that I would need to replace as well? I need to gather all the parts to get this done in a single sitting. And how hard is it to replace a starter? I've never done anything like that, and only have the basic tools. If I were to take it to a shop, how much should I expect to pay for labor?

and... for replacement starters, how much should I look to spend? and any brands/places (ie autozone) to avoid? Hondaautomotiveparts.com has a Denso starter at $289, seems waay too much for my wallet. Alternative brands/places?

Lastly... does replacing the starter require the same labor as working on the clutch/flywheel? If it is, I'd like to consider replacing those parts as well.

thanks guys!

89_LXi

Hmmm...I'd check and make sure all battery terminals and grounds (at both ends) are clean and tight first. If that's not it, you may have a bad battery. See if you can borrow a battery from someone just to test it out, or try jump starting the car without the battery connected at all (jumper wires right to the cables). A couple years ago I had a '94 Ford Ranger. Never showed any signs of the battery draining down, started right up on the cold mornings, etc. Drove to school one day, came out that night (and this was a freezing cold night) and, except for a few CLICK CLICK's, it was dead as a doornail (and no, I didn't leave lights or anything on). Tried jumping it with the battery still connected and it just made some nasty sparks and still wouldn't start. Went and got a new battery and stuck it in, and she fired right up no questions asked. So that's a possibility for yours too.

That just seems a little early for a starter to be going out (although very possible, I know). My original started acting weird at around 298k, so I replaced it with a reman from Napa for about $100. The original actually still worked pretty good and never failed to start, but it was starting to do some wierd things occasionally, especially on really hot humid days, so I just replaced it anyways before I drove it from IL down here to S. FL. My moms '94 Accord has 165k, and doesn't appear to have ever had the starter replaced either.

If you do have to replace it, it doesn't appear to be difficult on 5th gens (I've never done the 5th gen, but I have looked and it looked pretty easy). I do know that it was easy as pie on my 3rd gen. Disconnect the battery first, or you'll have some nice sparks if your ratchet touches a ground while your taking the nut off the solenoid, hehe. Take the (+) cable coming from the battery off of the solenoid (12mm) and the 2 bolts holding the starter to the bellhousing (14mm) and it's out -- just manuver it around a bit to get it up and out. Installation is the reverse. Labor doesn't include anything that a clutch would (as in dropping the tranny, removing axles, etc), it's all straightforward, and you probably won't even have to remove anything else to get to the starter. As for a brand....as much as I dislike aftermarket parts and try to get genuine Honda stuff, sometimes it's just too expensive. So of the aftermarket brands, I've always found Napa seems to have better stuff over Autozone, Advance Auto, etc. (just my opinion though). If your short on cash, hit the junkyard! Remember, when your in a jam, the junkyard can be your best friend, heheh

I'd check the cables and battery first though just to make sure

TypeSH

I'm 95% sure its not the battery, I sat in the car listening to music for 2 hours while trying to get some help, and I just got it 3-4 months ago, Optima Redtop. leading up to this, the started kinda had trouble starting sometimes on cold mornings, or when I was low on gas, so I got the battery. So I think most likely its the starter.

I have the helms and it looks straightforward, but I was just worried if I had to line it something or the such. I *thought* its connected to the flywheel or something and I didn't want to mess up installing it. But if it is a bolt on/off like u say, i just might do it myself.

One other question, the starter from NAPA, are those rebuilds of OEM ones? And how about the ones from autozone/kragen?

thanks for the help!

89_LXi

Yep, most all remufactured stuff are rebuilds of OEM stuff. But beware, that does not in any way mean they are as good. Personally, I don't like remanufactured stuff. I learned the hard way that reman'd master cylinder = huge *** headache, lol. Really the only part they reuse is the outer casing part. Most of the internals are new, but NOT OEM, so therefore they can fall out of factory specifications, or they mess up in the machining process. In the master cylinder case, they can mess it up pretty easy if they don't do a good job boring out the cylinder for the MC piston, or it's been pitted by moisture caused by the previous owner never changing their brake fluid , yet they redo the part anyways, and you get something like what I got and have all 4 of your brakes drag and eventually lock up, and warp your rotors...grrrr. The only reason I got the reman'd starter was because I couldn't afford a new one, and the few 3geez I can ever find in the junkyard all have 200-300k miles, just like mine, so it would be kinda risky. This one has shown very slight symptoms that the old one did, but only like 2 or 3 times and not as bad or as often. Other than that though it's still working fine (only had it for a couple months though -- keeping fingers crossed). Keep in mind this is just my personal opinion on reman'd parts. Not saying they're all bad, and not saying any are good, just going by my personal experiences.

A little starter info..... When the starter isn't running, it's actually not connected to the flywheel at all. The gear has a funky spring type mechanism in it. You'll see what I mean when you can fiddle with it. If you turn the gear (by hand) one way, it will just spin the motor. Spin it the other way, and it pushes itself out, then let it go and it quickly pulls itself back in. When you turn the key, a small 12v signal is sent to the starter solenoid, which forces the gear out and into the teeth of the flywheel. While this is happening, the activation of the solenoid connects the other 2 terminals on the solenoid (one is +12v from the battery, the other goes to the starter motor itself), and the motor starts spinning and starts the engine. When you release the key from start position, the small 12v signal dissappears, which kills the connection between the battery and starter motor, and thus the mechanism sucks the gear back in and off of the flywheel, the starter stops running, and off you go! Probably more than you wanted to know, but that should give you a good understanding about how it's connected in there for removal and such, hehe

Since your the one that's been driving it and know exactly what it's doing, I'd say if you think it's the starter, your probably right. Don't worry, you shouldn't have any probs replacing it. Anyways, that's the best way to learn!

Good luck!


[Modified by 89_LXi, 1:53 AM 11/18/2002]

mechanik

Do this. Take your starter out. Go to Autozone and have it tested for FREEEEEE!!

KoKreation

Yeah...Don't know if this would help...but I fixed a problem on my cuzins 95 ACCORD yesterday. Tried to start the car but nothing happens. Check the battery and it was just bought brand new a couple of months ago. When you try to start the car, the car would make no noise when u turn the key to ACC to try and start it. Usally u hear a clickin noise but it was nothing...Call my other CUZIN who is a HONDA-ACURA mechanic... He gave me an advice...told me to get a hammer and a long flat head screwdriver...and to bang on the starter using those tools and surely enough it actually work...I got back it the car started up and it started on the first try...I wonder if anybody have ever had this problem too?

TypeSH

bang on it? how hard and how big should the screwdriver head be? would a large blunt pipe suffice? I'm sort of afraid something small + a large hammer hit will dent the starter housing or something.

PnX-R

If you hit it with a hammer and it helps.. Then your problem is worn Carbon Brushes.. No Brushes mean no Current can travel to the Armature which means no Start..


[Modified by PnX-R, 3:21 PM 11/20/2002]

TypeSH

GREAT advice! and I suppose you tell people to replace their things like rotors at the first sign of vibrations instead of checking things like wheel balance and lug nut torque right?

anyways, thanks for the info guys, ill try the hammer thing when I get a chance.

nickg11111

the starter is about as easy to replace as the battery. all you need to do for your car is remove the airbox and the hose going to the throttle body. then there's two bolts to remove the starter located diagonally from each other, theyre probably 14mm. then it'll pop right out, you can take it to auto zone or pep boys, and theyll test it for free. if its not that, you should check the battery. you can get a rebuilt starter from napa w/ a lifetime warrenty for i think around 120$ after the core deposit (you give them your old starter back for a refund). you should be good after that. DO NOT take it into a shop, theyll charge too much, and it's too easy to have someone else do it. it should only take about 10 min to take it out. good luck.

PnX-R

"ahh crao... car just wouldnt start yesterday and all it does is make a screeching/scratching sound when I turn the key."

That's what I get for reading too fast and skipping lines..

If I remember correctly, that sounds as if your Armature in the Starter is rubbing up against your Pole Shoes/Permanent Magnets.. There's two reasons why that could happen.. But it's too bad I can only remember one.. The one remember is that a worn out or faulty bearing causes that sound...

What happens is at the Armature spins, if one of the Bearings are bad, it'll rub up against the Pole Shoes.. The clearance between those two are very close.. And since it's rubbing. If I were you, I would replace the whole Starter including the Solenoid.. (You never want to put in a new Starter and keep the old Solenoid.. But doing it vice vesa is ok..) Unless you want to open up the Starter and see if you can replace the Pole Pieces and Armature...

But that's just what I think. Good Luck..

TypeSH

ahh update guys... I took the starter off (freakin 17mm lower bolt was a PITA as my first time removing it.) and took it to autozone, but it spins up there just fine (appearingly). It ranged from 80-100amps (computer said 100amp max), and the worker took out a rebuilt one that tested 90-110amps, while trying to sell me it on the basis that mine is "too weak". =\

I slapped it back on the car and still wont start. It appears that the starter is spinning when I turn the key in, I hear the spinup, but it doesnt seem to engage the flywheel or start the car.

The scratching only occurs when I am trying to start and i release the clutch a lil/press on/off it while trying to start (desperate attemps). It doesnt scratch when I have it depressed all the way, only makes the starter spin.

any ideas on things to check guys? I really doubt its my battery, which I will have checked later this week, but any other things it could be?

hagrid

i'm having a really similar problem with my 94 accord (AT). if you figure out what the problem is....let me know

PnX-R

My guess would be that the Starter Drive isn't meshing with the Flywheel.. Why??.. I don't know why.. I'll figure it later if I have time..

But I can tell you that when the Starter Drive meshes with the Flywheel, the Starter Drive is suppose to spin a little as it moves towards the Flywheel.. And to me, it sounds as if your Starter Drive isn't moving far enough.. But that can't be right..

I'm not too sure what to tell you right now.. Kind of tired..

Good Luck..

TypeSH

any last ideas? heading home for thanksgiving to try to fix it again.

TypeSH

turns out the starter was bad. the starter gear spins freely when off of the car and I guess its not supposed to because the rebuilt one doesn't move. Read online somewhere it might be the one-way clutch or something thats supposed to keep it spinning one way only? Either way, $125 at napa and an hour under the car (i broke the endcap of the newly bought one out of stupidity and had to sit down trying to fix it... until i just swapped w/ the old stock one).

hagrid

haha mine was the same problem, my starter was doing the same so i got a new one. was a bitch to pay for. got a new distributor cap with it cause mine was burnt.