regnevazota

Vehicle: 1995, Ex, Vtec, AT, 170,000

Hello, got a safety question on getting the above vehicle ready for use. It has been sitting outside in the weather unused for 22 months. Prior to this 22 months everything was ok with the vehicle -- no major problems. The vehicle is parked in front of my home, and is not sitting level, which makes it dangerous to jack it up. So, I need to move it and that means I will need start the engine and then drive it to where I can restore it. I would like to know if anyone has any suggestions about getting this vehicle ready for use without causing any damage to it, if possible. Btw, I did start the engine about a year ago and rotated the tires 90 degrees, and everything seemed ok, but I did not move the vehicle. I removed the battery at that time.

My plan is to do the following work to get it roadworthy: Check tire psi and rotate wheels; Replace brake fluid in reservoir (will flush system later after moving to new location). Possible fuel system treatment to remove any moisture, etc., then run the remaining fuel out (gauge shows level slightly above the lowest line). My main concern is the drive train and internal engine parts. So I thought it wise to hand crank the engine before starting. But then a local service adviser told me to remove the plugs and crank the engine to get oil up into the parts. But then a second tech told me to just remove the coil wire telling me it would be safer on the coil and distributor, etc. But then I got to thinking about a few tricks I picked up here at H-T and I remember guys often telling someone to just remove a 7.5 amp fuse in the engine compartment. So, now the plan is take 7.5 amp fuse out, remove plugs, squirt a bit of oil into the cylinders, let it sit there at least a day or two before hand cranking the engine, then run it with plugs out to get oil into the top of the motor.

Question: if this plan is sound, how long do I need to crank it to get the top end lubed up? 10 seconds? 30? 60? I read where extended cranking more than 10 seconds at a time could be bad for the starter?

Perhaps I should also move the shifter thru the gears a good bit before starting or moving it?

So, any other thoughts or suggestions?

Thank you all in advance!

michaelrush01

Sounds like you're on the right track regarding upper cylinder lubrication. I would use a light penetrating oil such as PB Blaster, then after disabling the ignition in the manner of your choosing, go ahead spin the engine with the starter motor for 20 - 30 seconds. You aren't going to hurt the starter motor or solenoid in that period of time if the plugs are out of it because the load will be very light....

One concern is with 22 month old fuel.....
I am a service manager at a Honda motorcycle shop and a huge part of my business these days is rebuilding carbs gummed up from stale fuel and damaged by ethanol, (motorcycle, ATV's etc. don't get used much during the winter months).

Todays ethanol fuel is crap and starts to degrade in just a few months. Your fuel injectors will spray whatever is in your tank but it is unlikely that 22 month old fuel will support combustion. Even if it does, stale fuel will gum up your injector tips, intake valves and top compression ring. It will also create massive carbon deposits.
Hopefully you used Stabil, Star-tron or some other fuel stabilizer for ethanol based fuels. If not, you need to get rid of that old fuel if possible. Hopefully there's a handy dandy drain plug on the bottom of your tank, if not, commence to siphoning.....YUM!

Keep in mind that engine coolant and brake fluid should be flushed every two years regardless of mileage but that really doesn't have any impact on starting your slumbering beast....

Good Luck!
Michael

MAD_MIKE

Pulling the plugs would remove any compression, this would allow the starter to easily spin the engine and not put a load on the bearings. This would allow buildup of oil pressure in all the passages. As it is now there may be very little to no oil on the bearings, why risk possible damage if you can simply pull plugs. And it would be a good idea to check them for wear and gap. Oil on the cylinder walls is also a good idea.

Depending on what fuel is in the tank and how much you may be able to get away with dumping in some type of dry fuel or stabilizer along with some fresh fuel to dilute the mix. If the tank was full, you may want to remove some and check to see how it looks. If it comes out yellow like urine, its gone bad. Probably the easiest thing do to then would be to unhook the hose from the filter to fuel rail, attach another hose, and using the fuel pump, pump out the remaining fuel. Just don't let the pump run dry, might be a bit tricky since the car is on a hill. IIRC fuel gauge will read higher when the nose is facing up hill and lower when the nose is facing down hill.

regnevazota

The vehicle nose is facing downhill.

I'm not the original owner of this vehicle, and had to deal with virtually this same scenario before, only the vehicle's condition was worse then. I dont recall how much fuel there was in the tank the first time I had to do this, but I remember diluting it with a jerry can (6 gals) of gasoline, then did what you mentioned possibly doing, adding a fuel stabilizer, etc. I ran it thru almost completely, then went back to tankfuls of regular fuel. Evidently it did not do any damage to the system as far as I could tell, because I eventually did the well known egr manifold carbon clean out. What I was able to see in the fuel rail and injectors was that they were nice and clean, no gum, no deposits. Not sure if it mattered but I always used tier one gasoline in the vehicle.

I do like your suggestion about checking for the yellow color -- question is where to remove the fuel from? I feel most comfortable trying to siphon it from the tank. Do you know if the inlet tubing to the tank has any screen restriction to prevent siphoning?

regnevazota

Thank you for the answer about the starter run time.

As for the ethanol-gasoline mix issue, I also replied to the other Mike about that topic, if you care to read it. But as for the valves, the rings, and carbon deposits I couldnt say one way or the other if that kind of damage ever occurred, or if it did, whether it ever went away? But it is something that I would want to prevent if possible. I'm not the original owner of this vehicle and the former owner did little to no maintenance, and now, considering the old fuel issue, as I recall, looking at the tops of the pistons (flashlight enabled shows solid black piston tops), and the 180 to 200 compression readings I originally got, I would bet there is lots of carbon there. The camshaft area looks to be brownish stained, certainly not as clean as I have seen on well maintained vehicles. But the vehicle exhaust is virtually smoke free and it seems to run fine. Is there any way to clean the rings or valves, via, chemical fuel treatments over time?

As for the drain valve, yes there is one. but I am not comfortable messing with the drain valve on "this" fuel tank. I have become well conditioned to Murphys Law lying in wait. If this tank were of a thick metal with additional metal right at the drain valve, I might consider it, but this looks to be nothing more than sheet metal (and I have no idea how thick it is), but also, there is nothing more than a wing nut looking petcock built in. I have no idea of its history of ever being loosed or maybe even re-threaded, so, to me, it is just a possible Murphy waiting to give me one big stripped threads nightmare.

I got another brand of a vehicle back one time from a dealership that was paid to do a trans flush and whoever did the work had stripped the pan threads -- their tech or the dealer never said a peep about it -- it was my Mom's car and I discovered it leaking while doing other work under the vehicle. And I had a similar problem with two different oil pans. It seems that once that happens (assuming your lucky enough to be able to re-thread them), the bolts never go back in as tight as they once were, and I always have to be careful and go slow, when taking it out and putting it back in. I can just feel the difference compared to before it stripped. Yes, it sure is tempting and would be a quick solution but I wont risk it. So, basically, I think the best I can do is to see if the gas is yellow and if not then add some stabil, some techron, and dilute it with a jerry can or two full of fuel.

michaelrush01

Try smelling your gas cap....If it smells like old varnish, you've gotta get rid of that fuel!

IMHO, diluting it is not a good option. If you have 5 gallons of goo in your tank and you add 10 gallons fresh, it's still 33% goo. Burning 5 gallons of 'diluted' old gas will make your engine and especially your catalytic converter very unhappy. We have pulled the heads off many engines and found massive carbon build up because of stale ethanol fuel. We find intake valve so badly gummed up that they stick in the guide and won't close. I know siphoning is politically incorrect in today's world but I have siphoned gas many time in my life and I have yet to grow horns or a third eye. (Of course another head has grown out of my left shoulder but it's no problem really, we get along just fine)

If you choose to 'dilute' the nasty old gas, add a bottle of Lucas fuel injector cleaner or Seafoam. I've had great luck with both. Once you've burned thru the nasty gas, decarbonize your top end using Amsoil Power Foam or GM Top End Cleaner, both work great.

I have seen old ethanol fuel ravage many fuel systems and top ends. Do yourself a favor and get rid of it....

regnevazota

Michael, I got the work started. The gas cap smells like gasoline. Do you know if there is a baffle or some sort of restriction in the tubing going to the tank?

Is it necessary to remove the valve cover to lube and clean the cam lobes, or anything else in the top end? (Several years ago when I was getting another vehicle ready for running that had sat for a long time someone told me to do that). Dont know if it helped or hurt.

I removed the fuel pump fuse from the interior fuse box, and the ECU fuse in the engine fuse box, and tomorrow I will pull the wiring going into the distributor -- all three of them for the purpose of eliminating fuel and spark. I suppose I could also release the pressure in the fuel line at the service bolt.

michaelrush01

Sorry man, didn't mean to leave you hangin, apparently the email notification from this forum has a bit of a delay, since I just received it today....

Anyhow, I don't know how far you've gotten on your repairs, hopefully you're driving the thing by now!

Your camshaft has a 'pool' of oil beneath it, the cam lobes 'swim' thru this pool with every revolution. Should you decided to change your oil before turning the engine over, the fresh oil poured thru the oil fill on top of the valve cover dumps directly on to the cam/rockers and in to this pool. I don't think it's necessary to pull the valve cover.....

I can't answer your question about baffling in the fuel filler but I don't think there is any....

I'll try to check back more often since the email notification leaves alot to be desired.

Michael

regnevazota

Well, almost. I got all the pre-start work finished, then went on to running the engine. Fired right up, came up to temp and settled down into a nice even idle. Today I cleaned the surface rust off the brake rotors. Vehicle is ready for the remaining work -- rear brake pads, a FR brake hose line (I understand that I need to be careful, the small line fittings corrode easy and can lead to major problems removing them). When I finish I'm going to look for and use the Amsoil stuff you recommended. I was surprised at how this vehicle has held up. Had this been a different make or a domestic I think I would have had a ton of problems to deal with from sitting without use. Its almost as if it only got dusty from sitting.

Since Sunday, I've been running the engine keeping it lubed and generally get it going again. One odd thing did happen today, it kept stalling right at the same exact moment that it fired up. It did eventually start. Didnt display any CEL or codes. For some reason my battery cable clamps are too big for the battery post. I've had to use an aluminum shim of sorts to take up the slack. Not sure if that was the problem, the negative clamp could be turned by hand. Maybe as the engine fired it would shake the clamp enough to instantly cause a stall. Its tight now and it did eventually start. Or perhaps it was the bad gas. But then why not all the time. In fact, I was just looking for a post I saw recently about Hondas having cold start issues with no apparent reason why. But I'm sure it will start again and keep going. I'm really impressed with Honda's reliability and durability.