mattp27

I have a 1994 Honda Accord EX (automatic) that has been sitting in my driveway for about 6+ months without anyone driving it. I jumped the car and took it for a spin and noticed I have no brake pressure, pedal to the floor. After opening the hood I realized that the master cylinder reservoir is empty.

Here are my concerns and questions:

1.) Because the reservoir was empty and I was pumping the brakes is there now air in my lines and I need to re-bleed?

2.) I also want to check for a leak, can I just put fluid back in the cylinder and look for a leak or do I need to properly bleed first and then check for a leak? Any specific order?

3.) Is there any explanation for why the cylinder reservoir would be empty other than an internal or external leak?

finally....

4.) Did I screw myself because it ran dry?



Thanks
-Matt

GhostAccord

Only way it would run dry is if there was a leak or someone siphoned the fluid out of the reservoir.

Where there any puddles of break fluid where your car was sitting? If you look under your car and at the backs of all 4 wheels. It may be pretty evident where the fluid has been leaking. If you can't see any trace of fluid you could try adding some fluid and check for leaks. Although I would imagine that there should be visible signs without having to do this.

After you have found and fixed the leaking component a full system bleed will be required.

mattp27

Thanks, I will check for any visible signs of leaking.

Also, when you mention "full system" bleed, does that include a seperate MC bleed, outside of bleeding the lines at each wheel, what they refer to as a "bench" bleed? If so can i do this without removing the MC from the booster?

GhostAccord

Where your system was run completely dry, doing a bench bleed wouldn't hurt. However it is not completely neccessary. It will cut down on the amount of time and fluid required for the bleeding process. Make sure when you start bleeding that the MC doesn't run dry.

mattp27

Ok.
When I drive the car and I push the pedal to the bottom of the floor there is a very slight pressure applied to the brakes that slow the car. I'm thinking because of that, that maybe there is still fluid remaining in the MC and it's not completely dry.

MAD_MIKE

Stop driving the car with no fluid in the MC. At best you are damaging the MC seals. You may have some fluid still in the bore, however if there is an internal leak of the MC or the rear seal has blown there may be fluid inside the booster.

Being an EX it more than likely has ABS, check the ABS has fluid in its reservoir as well. When the car is turned to on does the ABS pump try to prime, but just stays running?

PearlsOwner

Yep what MAD MIKE said,, dont drive it because you could cause more damage and or totally lose your brakes smacking into that extremely large fellow in front of you who may not take kindly to getting hit.
When you fix the line, wheel cylinder or whatever it is that is leaking you get the fun of bleeding the system. A bench bleed is not 100% needed but may make your work easier. Personally I have never done them unless swapping out the master. Start at the back pass side then go to back driver side. Front Pass side on to front driver side. Another helpful tool to have is some map gas to help get the bleeder screws loose. Note brake fluid does catch on fire so watch it.

GhostAccord

The smoke from burning/hot brake fluid is highly toxic! So don't stick your head in under there while it's smoking. Do this in a well ventilated area....

If the car has ABS you have to bleed the modulator unit before you go bleeding the brakes at the wheels.

OP, do you have a Helms or Haynes shop manual for your car?

mattp27

To reiterate; I haven't driven this car in a long time, just took it for a test drive the other day so at this moment there is no concern about driving it on the road with other cars.

In regards to ABS, yes the car is equipped with ABS but unfortunatly the ABS light is on in the dash so I think there is currently an issue there. I have not tested to get the error code.

The last reply mentioned bleeding the ABS modulator. Is that a requirement to complete prior to bleeding the entire system? Does it use the same brake fluid?

And finally, no I do not have either manual.

GhostAccord

There is an easy way to self diagnose the ABS codes.

Bleeding the ABS modulator is part of bleeding the system. It's actually one of the first steps of bleeding the entire system. It is all covered in the shop manual.

PM sent!

dnguyen2010

if you haven't driven the car for 6 months, then why are you driving now?
Sell the car

mattp27

Update: I've topped of the MC reservoir to the MAX level. I let it sit for a few mins to check for any leaks from the MC and did not notice anything. I turned the key (did not turn on car) and pumped the brakes but there was still no pressure in brakes, pedal to the floor with ease. I did however, continue to hear a "clicking" noise from under the shifter every time I pressed down. Checking the MC again, there was no change in the level of fluid or signs of leakage from the MC. Dark outside so I can't quite see any leakage from the wheels at this point.

I've confirmed ABS has fluid in the reservoir but didn't notice a priming sound when the car is turned on. I've determined the code from the ABS light to be 18 ("High Pressure System")

Any ideas why I am not getting any increase at all in brake pressure? Next steps?

Thank you so far for all the responses.
-M

mattp27

So i found that there is a leak. After bleeding the brakes with the engine off, I turned the car on and fluid came rushing out a rear brake line somewhere around the center of the back of the car. I am unable to pinpoint exactly where the issue is because the line appears to be covered by something.

Can anyone give me suggestions how I can access the rear brake lines? Do I need to remove the fuel tank to access them?

thanks in advance......

GhostAccord

With the ABS style brakes on the CD there are two line connectors mounted behind the fuel tank. One for each wheel cylinder, in order to get to the connectors you will have to drop the tank.

mattp27

Ok, sounds like a good time. I will go after it today.

Is there a reason that this leak was not present when I was bleeding the system with the engine off? I had pressure in the lines when bleeding, started up the car and lost all pressure and all the fluid came running out in the rear of the car.

GhostAccord

That is ABS for ya... I absolutely detest the system. Not due to it's complexity ether.

MAD_MIKE

If the car is an AT then that is the shift gate lockout solenoid activating.
FWIW on 94-97 Accords the code is 1-8 not 18.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-1990-2002-2/97-accord-abs-code-1-8-looking-tsb-010201-any1-have-2986429/[/QUOTE]

With the engine on the vacuum booster becomes charged and you can apply more pressure to the system with the assist.
I am unsure but possibly the ABS does a pressure test of the circuits at startup.