accord96lx

My 96 accord has started to have a oil leak, and I wondered if this could have been caused by a timing belt and water pump replacement done recently by a local garage.

I checked the valve cover and didnt see any leaks from there, but its all around the timing belt base area and oil pan. Had a 5 inch diameter spot on the driveway after parking for 30 min after a 10 mile mile drive.

If the garage did possibly get something wrong, what would it be in that process that could have caused this?

holmesnmanny

probable valve cover leak

accord96lx

Well the shop called and said the following

The oil pan is leaking
Oil is leaking from behind the motor
Power Steering is leaking
They dont recommend fixing this vehicle

None of this was happening prior to the timing belt replacement

I guess I'll get some degreaser and clean it up and see if I can spot exactly where all this fluid is coming from.

djkurious

Clean up and post back. Those are fairly easy leaks to replace. If the car is running good I would suggest keeping it. The power steering pump is probably leaking and the rebuild kit is very cheap. Also, the oil pan gasket is easy to replace. Is the car a VTEC or non-vtec? Did they replace the seals associated with the timing belt and the valve cover gasket?

accord96lx

Just cleaned it down as best I could with ramps in the driveway.
I'll post some pics tonight/tomorrow, before and after a drive and hopefully the leaks will be easier to spot.

Its over 300k on it but up until this timing belt replace it has not been leaking.

The parts listed on the invoice are:

• Timing Belt, Balance Shaft Belt
• Tensioner, Balance Shaft
• Tensioner (N) {INS-150698}
• Water Pump (N) {INS-150698}
• Camshaft Seal (N) {INS-150698}
• Crankshaft Seal (N) {INS-150698}
• 1 Gal anti freeze (N) {INS-150698}

Its not the VTech and runs good except some idle vibrations that come and go that I cant seem to correct with mount replacements and adjusting the base idle.

Thanks for the help!!

holmesnmanny

u just need to figure out where its leaking thats going to be key

accord96lx

Here are the pics taken after degreasing as best I could on ramps

accord96lx

And here are the pics after about a 10 mile drive




































This spot looks broken from the plastic cover thats bolted, not sure if thats whats causing the leak.

accord96lx

Im guessing oil pan gasket on the leak, but can anyone tell by the pics whether its another spot?

holmesnmanny

looks like oil pan gasket ya ... be sure that the pan and block are completely free of any oil or it will leak again u can use break cleaner when installing a new gasket

holmesnmanny

keep in mind obviously oil will leak down so if there is oil above the oil pan gasket its probably also the vc gasket leaking

accord96lx

Well before the timing belt replacement there wasnt any leak, it may be coincidental but I was thinking VC gasket...but they put a boatload of gasket sealant along with that gasket. I couldnt see from around the VC that anything was leaking though.

Besides the VC and Oil pan, is there anywhere else that could be the cause that may be related to a timing belt replace?

simbabeat

Make darn sure it isn't power steering fluid coming down. Check all the hoses.

19Accord97

They definitely used WAY to much RTV on the valve cover. The ONLY places that should have rtv is the corners of the "humps".

Hopefully they didnt start the vehicle immediately after and you have some rtv floating around in your motor.

hondamark35

it does look like the pan gasket could stand to be replaced, as well as the missing oil pan bolt . in my experience, pan gasket leaks usually seap out and collect on the bottom of the pan.

however, immediately following a T-belt change and a leak like this... i would say they goofed up one of the seal installs. crank or front balance shaft seal would be my guess. the cover would need to come off to confirm that. not to make any claims against them, but a dishonest shop have many incentives to talk you out of fixing this. if my suspicions are correct, they would have to admit screwing up, spend labor hours to make the repair, and in most cases refund part of your original bill. they could actually lose money in the end. ok, i'll get off my soapbox...

you should also replace that overused oil drain plug washer. technically they are one time use. if you know some tricks you can reuse a few times, but when it starts deforming like that, it's way past due for changing. it is no longer providing a good seal.

if you really like the car, and this is it's only main issue I would recommend finding another shop to go to and have them troublshoot the leak. the first shop shows signs of incompetence... Or, if you have the space to do the work give it a shot yourself!

holmesnmanny

you know i just realized all those seals got replaced .. that changes everything... they obviously fucked up the seals install since u had no leaks like that before the change...u need to tell them to pull the covers and run the engine without the covers so u can see where its leaking .. i cant believe they told u its not worth fixing after u just spent money to have all that work.That tells me they may have scratched ur crank or cam taking the seal out.

hondamark35

there is also the chance they've used cheapo seals that have trouble holding on to their ID lip springs durring install. the same can happen with a good quality seal if it's not installed correctly. i've made the mistake before myself on an Odyssey V6 before. fortunately i found the problem before pulling it off the rack. I had to pull it all appart again and replace the seal. found the spring separated from the seal when i got in there. had a steady drip of oil from about the same place the OP is showing when it was running.

accord96lx

Thanks guys, this just makes me ill though. I have another shop I trust more but they are further out and spoke with him and he said the same thing youre saying Cam seal and crank seal I think is what he said.

I explained the situation and asked him what would be reasonable and he said to ask for labor back which was $328 since I have the parts. At this point I dont want them working on it at all but its a do over with the other shop so its around $700 again

So the plan is to take it to the new shop and have him inspect it and be able to say for sure, then go to the other shop and ask for the refund.

holmesnmanny

ask them to pull the covers and run the engine without them so u can see the exact leak ... make a video so u have leverage against the old shop ... threaten to file a complaint with the department of automotive or whoever has authority over automotive in your state

accordturb96

Looks like your main seal is leaking, oil pan has a broken bolt as well.

accord96lx

Valve cover and timing belt covers? Those covers you mean?

holmesnmanny

remove the timing covers put it all back together without the covers so u can watch the timing side while the engine is idling to see where its leaking ...

djkurious

http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/o...psa88cd64f.jpg

^ This would tell me that you are leaking from somewhere in the timing belt cover. Either Cam seal, Balance Shaft seal, or Crankshaft seal. You also need that bolt for your oil pan.

accord96lx

I had taken my Accord to another shop I mentioned before to have them look it over and they said the leak was coming from behind the timing cover. I took it back to the other shop and told them this and met with a new face behind the counter. He was just hired and asked me to leave it with them. He called be back and said it was definitely something they will correct, even caught the cracked timing cover and would replace it as well. Seems the jackass that did the work was fired. They had a tech they knew that would be able to work on it but he was only able to work on it Sunday . So I picked it up today and was told the leak was from the oil pump shaft seal. I'll keep an eye on it and replace the missing oil pan bolt.

Thanks for the input to all.

accordturb96