CD5-97

Hey everyone I just wanted to know how difficult it is to swap my f22 manifold for a f23 manifold, is it like just bolting up the f23 and it's an exact fit or does it need some kind of modifications to fit?? And also is it really worth it or should I just port and polish my f22 manifold??

gogydm

It just bolts on. What you will need though is this. It will allow you to reuse your two wire IACV. There is a piece of metal that aids in holding the IM which you will have to make work with the F23 IM.

twkdCD595

F23 intake bolts on (assuming by your name your f22b1 or b2) but you will have to use an adapter plate to use the 2 wire IAC from the f22 manifold. Blacktrax makes them.

NZXTInerTia

I just made my own adapter plate with mine 3/8" aluminum and I drilled straight into my manifold and tapped the hole (using Teflon tape as it somewhat enters the plenum. The bottom one lines up the IACV perfectly. Running stock injectors, stock fuel rail, Phearable 68mm throttle body, EGR block off plate, and a port matched Plenum with my F23 manifold setup.

CD5-97

Thanks for the info guys, i really appreciate it and it was very helpful

CDStreetSleeper

NZX you continue to amaze me with your tech saavy skills lol

p.s. is it possible to install a intake manifold plenum spacer? maybe even double stacked for increased Hp and Tq

GhostAccord

Sure you can install a spacer in there.... you will have to fabricate it yourself and buy longer studs/bolts to hold it down.

Q. Why do you want to make the F23 intake manifold volume larger?



NZXTInerTia would you happen to have the overall volume of the F23 IM? If not can you take a few measurements for me?

Runner volume;
length = ______ mm
diameter = ___ mm x ___ mm

Plenum volume;
length = ___ mm
width = ___ mm
height = ___ mm

NZXTInerTia

Yah I can pull those measurements for you, I have work here in about 30 minutes. I'll PM them to you when I get back if I can get my hands on a caliper.

GhostAccord

Thanks boss! Even a ruler/tape measure will work. A caliper would be more precise but who's counting 5-10cc....

I've always wanted to know the difference in volume and runner length between the F22B1/2 and the F23A1. Pictures only say so much!

CDStreetSleeper

i thought the more air you can get into the engine the better?

GhostAccord

yes the more air you can cram in there it is better. However the cylinders will only take in so much air in a naturally aspirated state. Making the intake plenum volume larger or making the runners longer doesn't always = more air getting into the combustion chambers. You would want to try and find a way to increase the velocity of the air going into the chambers. Kind of like a ram filling effect. Where once the cylinder is full, the air behind is still moving fast enough to maybe push a little more in. This is where larger isn't always better. Filling a cylinder quickly with a large bore runner can leave the inlet valve open to equal atmosphere where the air fuel mixture could actually be pushed back out into the intake port. Extreme case.....

There is a fine balance when you start talking about cylinder filling, ram effect and exhaust scavenging. All the parts have to be on the same page. Intake system, camshaft, valves, combustion chamber and exhaust system.

That being said, if you are seeing high vacuum in your plenum at mid range or vacuum while you are at wide open throttle. You would definitely benefit from a larger throttle body/intake manifold.

CDStreetSleeper

i only ask because i seen the f22a1 with a h23 intake manifold with double plenum spacers and they said it DRASTICALLY improves power, so i thought it would apply to the f22b1 as well :/

GhostAccord

Yeah I have heard lots of those DRASTIC HP improvement claims as well. No one ever seems to want to post up a dyno of just the H23 intake and spacer upgrade though. They are usually lumped in with a cam, exhaust and a tune ($500+ in upgrades)

The one that I most recently saw had the OP putting down 151hp & 143tq. It had other mods as. Cam, injectors, $600 header, $300 exhaust and a tune.... Not so sure that throwing an H23 with a spacer on a stock F22A1 engine and ECU will get you those drastic improvements!

CDStreetSleeper

STILL it would make me feel better if i didnt have to go back and redo **** when i do decide to throw on a f23 manifold, know what i mean? OR should i just get my stock throttle body maxbored with the f23 mani and call it a day

NZXTInerTia

Just go buy an F23A1 manifold and a larger throttle body. 10 spacers isn't going to do much as GhostAccord stated, the combustion chamber half of the motor will only "breathe" so much.

CDStreetSleeper

which throttle body you going with?

twkdCD595

Depending on your application, increasing plenum volume with spacers can definately help. Yours is not one though. For a bolt on n/a f22bx... spacers are not going to do much. Just shift the powerband a little. I would not worry about any changes to the f23 intake until your able to take full advantage of it with more modifications. You need to be able to move more air (be it with more rpm, cam change, etc or f/i) to see the most advantage of the f23's larger plenum shorter runner configuration.

Go with a straight f23 intake swap for now, maybe a larger or bored tb is you get one for a great deal. The large throttle body will really just make it more responsive and snappy than any substantial increase in power.

CDStreetSleeper

alright cool, any pointers what size TB for now? i know ill be getting a magnaflow exhaust with a stage 2 bisimoto cam/gear, i know i dont wanna go turbo i want N/A so i was thinking the bisimoto header

NZXTInerTia

I will be running a 68mm Phearable throttle body on mine. A lot of people, like bigbpatel in his wagon build use the Skunk2 66mm Alpha Series throttle body.

So for the plenum I got a 86.384" and I wasn't able how I should go about measuring the runner length, just wasn't sure if I was supposed to measure where it sweeps up into the plenum or just horizontally.

twkdCD595

70mm here with a very heavily ported f23 intake but mine is a turbo car with a bit more wild setup. Supports well over 600+whp so far.

johm73

forgive the stupid question i'm still learning but I have a '97 F22b2 and found a F23A1 intake manifold for $70 but it says '98-'02. I assume that is why you need the adapter plate right? I guess that next year they went to a 3 wire instead of 2.

GhostAccord

Yes, they changed from the 2 wire IACV to a 3 wire rotary air control valve in 1998. The RACV replaces both the IACV and FITV on the F23 intake manifold/throttle body. That is why you need an adapter plate to fit a 2 wire IACV to the F23 IM.

nus_dogg

Yup. You need an adapter to retain your F22 2-wire IACV; otherwise, your car will act funny.

johm73

so here is the intake I found on Ebay. It states Vtec and my F22B2 is not a Vtec so does that mean it won't work? Do I need to find an F23 non-Vtec? if so, any suggestions where to search for them? if the one I found works does it look good or like crap?

Appreciate all the info I can get. Thanks!

nus_dogg

It will work regardless. Bolt studs and intake ports will match up, so don't worry. What you need to know is that the manifold you're looking at will have FIA mini ports above the intake runner ports. The F22B2 does not have those on the stock intake mani like the B1. You will need to drill, tap, and plug those holes up so it will not leak and cause a huge vacuum leak. I installed one on my buddy's F22B2 Non VTEC, and it idle surge like no other.

We took it back apart, found some 10-32 x 1/4 socket screw set from Menard; part #: 80405. Use a 5/16 drill bit to drill it out then use a #10-32 tap to tap the holes for the 10-32 set screws. I used loc-tite to keep them in which also helps it seals.

Note: DO NOT drill all the way through. Lol. I did the mistake of doing so on my buddy's manifold, and the set screws won't stop or bottom out. So drill in half way or so.

Here's a picture of what I'm talking about. Ignore the "Before & After" notation. The Fuel Injection Air control (FIA) ports found on the F22B1 and H22As. This picture is from a H22 Euro R manifold but applies to the F22B1 as well:


Courtesy of Rosko.

It's been drilled and being tapped for the 10-32 set screws:

Courtesy of Rosko.

You can find the 10-32 tap with the drill bit as a kit on Ebay. Thats where I got mine. They should have them at your local Menards, Home Depot, or Lowes. Lowes where I live use to have them in stock but no where to be found when I was there looking for it, so I ended up getting the kit off Ebay for cheap.