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Old 05-10-2011, 05:15 AM   #476
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

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Originally Posted by 76 camaro car View Post
I just replaced my water pump and belts. Stopped my water leak but some how ended up a little out of time. The best I can get is 15 degrees out with my distributor. Can I just set my crankcase pully at TDC and remove the camshaft belt and set it at TDC to correct this?
you can try doing that, I've never tried so I'm not sure. I would loosen the adjusting nut, slide the belt off, adjust cam gear, slide belt on, then redo the tensioning procedure to make sure belts are on the gears/pulleys and properly tensioned.
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Old 05-11-2011, 08:56 AM   #477
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

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Originally Posted by TouringAccord View Post
...............................

Step 28
Lock the timing belt tensioner in place by installing one of the 6x1.0mm bolt from the side covers.


[/i]
I'm doing the timing belt on my 91 Accord LX F22a1, the mystery rough running problem turned out to be a improperly installed Timing belt(done by a previous owner).

My question: My tensioner had a regular 6mm hex bolt installed in it when I started dis-assembly of the parts. I get the impression there is not supposed to be a bolt installed there permanently, and yet I've noticed at least one other guy who found the same thing.

Is there supposed to be a bolt installed there on my engine? I'm about to finish putting that mother back together, and I'm torn on what to do?
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Old 05-11-2011, 09:25 AM   #478
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

Well, the diagrams at Majestic Honda don't show a bolt there, so I'm going to leave it out this time, and assume the short-bus riders who did the belt last forgot to remove it...................please let me know if this is right or wrong in case the installation ends up failing...........
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Old 05-11-2011, 10:08 AM   #479
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

If you are referring to the bolt that is circled in the picture you quoted, then no, there is only supposed to a bolt there temporarily. It's used to hold the timing belt tensioner in place, after setting the timing belt tension, while you tension the balanace shaft belt.

So you are correct to remove that bolt after both belts have been installed
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Old 05-11-2011, 01:11 PM   #480
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

OK, I got the project completed(91 Accord LX, F22A1)..........then I set about putting the plug wires back. I noticed that the original wiring didn't agree with the diagram in the Chiltion manual. So I looked for a diagram to verify that the Chiltion manual was right, I found a link posted by touringaccord in this thread> http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1949566 , and a link posted in this thread> 1990 Accord EX Firing order? , both agree with the Chilton manual.

I rerouted the wires correctly(according to the 3 diagrams), and went to start the beast up............won't start! It just barely acts like it might catch, but never does.

I lined up the TDC mark on the flywheel, and pulled the valve cover off, the two marks on the Camshaft line up perfectly on the head. So I believe the timing belt is correct

Since this car was obviously worked on by Micky mouse(the original timing belt was nearly 1/2" off according to the Camshaft marks), I'm not surprised by anything. My father suggested that the Distributor may be installed wrong, but it doesn't look like there is much room for error on this engine, no way to install upsidedown.

I might just go try to move the distributor the other direction to see if it was adjusted way off on purpose by Micky mouse so it would run with the timing belt so far off. But why were the plug wires so far off? Perhaps to adjust to the incorrectly installed timing belt?

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Edit: Problem solved

Last edited by oregonorganic76; 05-11-2011 at 06:30 PM. Reason: Problem solved
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Old 05-12-2011, 05:20 AM   #481
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

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Edit: Problem solved
So what was the solution?

on a side note... I've heard of people installing the distributor 180deg off but never understood how until one of my friends did it. So it is possible, you can feel a difference when installing it right or wrong. When installing it wrong you have to sorta force it together and when putting it together correctly it goes together much smoother.
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Old 05-20-2011, 01:00 PM   #482
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

I have read and followed this a best as posable, But now that I have installed the waterpump, both new belts I started the car and it is running rough and the only way to keep it running is to rase the rpm's it seem like its out of time or could I have something 180 Deg out, Should I remove and reset
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Old 05-20-2011, 03:13 PM   #483
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

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I have read and followed this a best as posable, But now that I have installed the waterpump, both new belts I started the car and it is running rough and the only way to keep it running is to rase the rpm's it seem like its out of time or could I have something 180 Deg out, Should I remove and reset
...or maybe something is just 1 tooth off. I think the first thing to do is put the crank (or cam) back at top dead center, and look at every alignment mark - camshaft, oil pump, balance shaft, etc. and make sure everything is on the money. Look over the engine also to make sure you didn't disconnect some vacuum hose or something like that and forgot to reconnect it, plug wires in the right place, etc.
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Old 05-23-2011, 09:39 PM   #484
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

Well, finally the timing belt job(surgery) is complete! However, things are not perfect for this first timer. First, problem leaking fuel injector o-rings, quick fix repaired that, will order the right o-rings. Car turned over and found second problem. Its ironic that its the related to the same heater outlet hose connection that caused the problem to begin with. I reused the same hose spring clamp and it seems that either it has lost its clamping ability or that the heater outlet tube is deformed from being perfectly round. I will slide the spring clamp off to the side, split it into two pieces and remove it and install a worm type clamp. I hope this will cure the small coolant leak...This job has made me more confident in repairing my own cars. I even made my own tools for this job which included a balance pulley holding tool; camshaft, balance shaft, and crank shaft seal installing tools that install the seals to about 0.060" deep and more, I machined them out of some hard plastic lying around my work. Next items on the repair list are new catalytic converter, and suspension system needs some overhauling as well. Thanks a lot for all the advise Touring Accord.
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Old 05-24-2011, 06:44 AM   #485
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

You're welcome!

Glad to hear that overall the job went good.

it's also pretty neat that you made your own oil seal installation tools
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Old 05-26-2011, 12:54 PM   #486
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

Hi Touring,

I recently changed my timing belt in my 96 Accord EX 4 banger uisng your writeup. It has 250+ miles I dont know the odometer is broken. Anyway I started working on it and everything was going great except for mangling the lower timing cover. Anyway, when putting on the timing balancer belt, I did not lock the balancer pulley as per your instructions because it did not say where exactly to lock it. I didnt know where it was on the engine. Anyway I kept the pulley aligned with the pointer and slipped on the belt. The engine was at TDC and the balancer pulley alignment mark was lined up. So I put everything back together. I tried to start the car and it cranks but wont fire. I finally got it to fire somehwat but it was running super rough and lots of smoke from tailpipe. It never really started to run. It was runnin great before I changed the belt. Actually the old belts looked perfect. Anyway sorry this is so long but can not locking the balancer pulley while putting on the balancer belt be causing this? I followed your instructions to the T except for locking the balancer pulley. Thank you
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Old 05-27-2011, 09:37 AM   #487
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

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Anyway, when putting on the timing balancer belt, I did not lock the balancer pulley as per your instructions because it did not say where exactly to lock it.
see Step 30

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Originally Posted by TouringAccord View Post
Step 30
Remove the sealing bolt from the maintenance hole and insert something long and skinny to hold the rear balance shaft pulley in place and aligned. The manual calls for a 6 x 100 mm bolt. A P1 phillips head screw driver should work, we use a long 6mm bolt though. Youíll be able to feel when the bolt or screwdriver is in place, the balance shaft wonít rotate when you try to rotate it.

Thatís the sealing bolt for the maintenance hole youíll be using.

Thatís the bolt with a couple washers that we used to hold the balance shaft into position.
If you didn't lock the balance pulley and it moves you will get abnormal engine vibrations. Based on your description it sounds like you're saying the engine is running rough, not just abnormal vibration. If that's the case I would first double check and make sure everything is aligned correctly. Remove the valve cover and upper side cover, rotate the engine so the cam is at TDC and check if the crank pulley is lined up correctly with the lower side cover mark.
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Old 05-27-2011, 12:36 PM   #488
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

Thanks for the reply-

I knew about step 30 I just couldnt find where that service port was. After reading more I assume its on the block somewhere. I aslo didnt realize there were 2 balance shafts front and rear. I was only focusing on the frint one and made sure the pointers were lined up. So yea I didnt pay any attention the the rear shaft. I did this because I could not find the service port in picture 30 and stopped looking for it. It could of and probably rotated when installing the balancer belt. I was sure my cam marks at TDC were lined up at all times following your instructions, they were super smooth. The car does not fire at all. Simply cranks. I guess its tear down and do it over? That, sucks.
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Old 05-28-2011, 02:01 AM   #489
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

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Originally Posted by TouringAccord View Post
You're welcome!

Glad to hear that overall the job went good.

it's also pretty neat that you made your own oil seal installation tools
High Touring here are the pics to my oil installing tools: http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread...7#post45357647
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Old 05-30-2011, 06:25 AM   #490
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

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High Touring here are the pics to my oil installing tools: http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread...7#post45357647
nicely done
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Old 06-26-2011, 11:04 AM   #491
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

Hello to all.

I am in the middle of this process....but i removed the oil pump gear set to replace the seal behind it...it seems possible that the screwdriver i used inside the maintenance hole to hold the right side balance shaft may not have been long enough.

The oil pump gear itself has a mark on it as if it needs to be aligned to something.

My left side balance shaft has its dimple still in the correct place....but it can be moved back and forth.

I am concerned...i do not want a strange vibration....i read elsewhere that if u take off the oil gearset you are supposed to realign it from the backside of the oil pump.

I'm no novice...but yes this is a strange setup being that these "balance shafts" are basically two big rods the ride side by side INSIDE the block....one is called the front and the other the rear....I have disregarding this not so funny misuse of convention....and am calling them the Left balance shaft and right balance shaft.

What do I do to make sure I am not out of alignment with this oil pump gear?

Also the freakin crankshaft sprocket will not slide out...any good tips on a decent removal technique...I am trying to replace that seal as well.

I could have half azz'd this job....instead I bought all the seals I thought I would bump into as I was changing this water pump and redoing the belts.
Come to find out that the way things are done internally here actually seem to prefer that you half azz it and not even touch some of these seals.

Im stuck with doing it now..the correct way as I origiinally intended and it is costing more effort and concern. Any help is very much appreciated.
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Old 06-27-2011, 08:38 AM   #492
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

Any one!???

Im thinking about placing a longer rod into the "maintenance hole" to hold the right side balancer shaft(or rear)...and then make sure the left side one is still on it's dimple mark. Then before bolting down the oil pump gear unit...aligining it's mark to the casting on the block/oilpump body w/e its called.

Can anyone share some insight?
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Old 06-27-2011, 09:30 AM   #493
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

Maybe this will help answer your question about the alignment of the rear balance shaft...
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2249804
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Old 06-27-2011, 09:43 AM   #494
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

PM sent. Check your message inbox.
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Old 06-28-2011, 09:06 AM   #495
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

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Originally Posted by TouringAccord View Post
Maybe this will help answer your question about the alignment of the rear balance shaft...
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2249804
TA

Maybe an update can done addressing doing the seals?...and also re-aligning the balance shafts.
It's very important. And due to limited access shouldn't be ignored.

I was finally able to get the sprocket off the crank....the seal was in fact bad.

But thank you either way for 1 serious write up.
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Old 06-28-2011, 09:19 AM   #496
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

well, the seals were replaced at that time, just for whatever reason pictures were never taken of that. I later did a timing belt on my Civic and posted some pictures of how I did it, those are later in the thread.

Actually, the car used in this write-up is due for another timing belt, maybe when we do it we will take some pictures on how to replace the oil seals.

as for the balance shafts, I'm not sure what you mean. If you use the proper sized bolt/rod/screwdriver/etc you can align or re-align the rear balance shaft without a problem as described in step 30.

and you're welcome, I'm glad the write-up is still helping people do this job.
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Old 06-29-2011, 02:52 PM   #497
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

First of all, I can't thank you enough for this write-up. Probably the most useful I've seen anywhere on the internet.

Thank you.

I am attempting this on my 94 Accord in the next couple days. My question is this:

What is the list of seals I should replace while I'm there? The car has 190k miles, and I'm sure the seals would need replacing.

Thank you again.
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Old 06-30-2011, 05:33 AM   #498
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

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First of all, I can't thank you enough for this write-up. Probably the most useful I've seen anywhere on the internet.

Thank you.
Thank you, and you're welcome!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hondacivkev View Post
I am attempting this on my 94 Accord in the next couple days. My question is this:

What is the list of seals I should replace while I'm there? The car has 190k miles, and I'm sure the seals would need replacing.

Thank you again.
I don't have part numbers or anything but you'll want to replace the cam seal, crank seal and balance shaft seals.
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:52 AM   #499
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

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Originally Posted by hondacivkev View Post
First of all, I can't thank you enough for this write-up. Probably the most useful I've seen anywhere on the internet.

Thank you.

I am attempting this on my 94 Accord in the next couple days. My question is this:

What is the list of seals I should replace while I'm there? The car has 190k miles, and I'm sure the seals would need replacing.

Thank you again.
Dude this will cover the crank seal, balance shaft, oil gear seal(rear balanceshaft):


http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FE...5899/?rtype=10

You still need the camshaft seal (91213-PTO-003-Honda) and I would also advise you replace the internal distributor's seal if that is orig. distributor.

http://www.partstrain.com/store/?N=0...=W0133-1638642

this is the distributor seal you will have to disassemble it but you will not have to buy a new one as this is the culprit for ruining originals:

http://www.partstrain.com/store/?N=0...=W0133-1640599

btw I've used all of these. Perfect fits.
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Old 07-06-2011, 08:17 PM   #500
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Default Re: How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1

Well I'm putting it all back together now. At the timing belt tension adjustment, it said to turn it counter clockwise and then tighten the adjustment bolt. But it seems when I turn it counter clock wise, the belt is more loose, not tighter.

I'm clearly doing something wrong. I just don't know what it is.
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