rahulk

I have a 1992 Accord with 135,000 KM on it. The Honda dealer
told me replacing the timing belt and water pump would run
about $1200, using Honda parts. They advised against using
secondary market parts (like NAPA) as they have found that
the timing belts from such manufacturers don't always work
particularly well.

Can anyone confirm this? A reliable mechanic in down can do the
belt and pump for less than half what the dealer wants, using
NAPA parts.

gianinline

Bro... you went to a honda dealer, do you think they are going to admit that aftermarket parts can meet or exceed OEM specs?! You could spend 350 to 650 doing a timing belt outside a honda dealer.

tamadrummer1120

agreed. gian could have not said it better. honestly there are a lot of parts that you can go aftermarket on that will be more than fine, like belts, plugs, filters, stuff like that. Not to mention save a ridiculous amount of money.

striker81

Just change them yourself and save a few $100 bro.

GhostAccord

$650 and still use quality Honda parts. Buy OEM parts and have your mechanic install them. Honda parts aren't that much more than NAPA parts if you want reliability and piece of mind.

This is what I paid for parts for my T & B belt change
• Timing Belt (OEM) $67
• T-Belt Tensioner Spring (OEM) $6
• Timing Belt Tensioner Roller and Bracket Koyo (OEM) $27
• Balance Shaft Belt (OEM) $68
• Bal Shaft Tension Spring (OEM) $5
• Balance Shaft Tensioner Koyo (OEM) $38
• Water Pump (OEM) AISIN $71
• Valve Cover Gasket Set Nippon Reinz $55

Online purchase Total for OEM parts = $337 CDN + tax w/free delivery and I did it myself. That equals about $289 USD + tax on the road. You can add whatever your mechanics labour costs would be and see what you get. If he charges you more than $300 for labour find a new mechanic.

Targa250R

There is some merit to your local dealer's statements, but it's also a bit of marketing BS as well. It really depends on the application. Some applications require a specific brand/type of part to work properly (for example, you should use only NGK or Denso spark plugs in a Honda, and you should never use a non-OEM thermostat in a Honda car), but for some applications, any old part will do.

Here's a tip: Honda doesn't manufacture their own parts; they're not in the business of fabricating things out of raw materials.

Honda's job is to design a vehicle. They then contract manufacturing companies to fabricate parts for that vehicle to a particular set of specifications at an agreed price. Honda then assembles their car out of the parts delivered to them from the manufacturer and sells it you you, the customer.

When it comes to buying parts for your Honda vehicle, you can choose to either buy genuine Honda parts from Honda, or you can buy from aftermarket parts manufacturers. Some of these manufacturers are the same companies that supply Honda with the parts that your car is assembled from, and the parts that Honda sells to you in Honda boxes. (To continue my thermostat example above, Honda sources thermostats from two companies: Nippon Thermostat, and Fuji Thompson.)

That doesn't mean that all aftermarket parts are made the same. Some parts are exactly the same as Honda's OE spec parts, while others are not made to Honda's specifications. Honda OE is not always the best - especially in terms of price:performance/utility/longevity ratio - but in most instances it is, because Honda goes out of their way to source parts that will last so they don't have to deal with comebacks, warranty payout losses, and a reputation for poor quality.

Now that you have some background information, I can address your question: Are aftermarket parts just as good as Honda parts for a timing belt service? The answer is both yes and no; unfortunately it isn't simple.

Ideally, when replacing the timing belt, you're going to want to replace a number of other items while the car is apart. Since the job is so labor-intensive, you don't want to have to pay to tear the whole thing back down again in a few months because a seal blew out or the water pump starts leaking. The items that I recommend replacing include: balance shaft belt, balance shaft belt tensioner, timing belt, timing belt tensioner, water pump (and coolant), accessory belts (AC/alternator and power steering), camshaft seal, balance shaft seal, and balance shaft seal retainer. Since you'll be removing the valve cover for the job, you may also want to replace the valve cover gasket and spark plug tube O-ring seals if they're hardened, leaking, or cracked - which they usually are in a 17+ year old car.

All of these parts are available from various aftermarket manufacturers as well as from Honda. Some brands are good, others are not so good and may be prone to premature failure. I'll give you a breakdown of the brands that I've found are the most trustworthy in my years of experience with Honda timing belt jobs. Keep in mind that some of these brands may not be available at NAPA or the average parts chain stores, and may only be found via parts distributors that specialize in imports.

I'm assuming a 1992 Accord LX or EX model:

06923-P0A-306 balance shaft seal retainer - this part was an interesting case in which the aftermarket parts industry came together to solve a problem even before Honda admitted it was an issue. These are available from Sure Seal, Honda, and MTC. All three of them are fine to use; these are very inexpensive from Honda.
12341-PT0-000 valve cover gasket - OEM is usually Ishino, which is a brand owned by NOK, a company that supplies many of Honda's oil seals. You don't need to use OEM here; it's pretty hard to mess up a valve cover gasket.
12342-PT0-000 spark plug tube O-rings - Again, usually Ishino. Doesn't need to be OEM.
13404-PT0-004 balance shaft belt tensioner - OEM is Nippon Seiko (a.k.a. NSK). I also recommend Koyo or NTN, which are also OE bearing suppliers to Honda.
13405-PT0-004 balance shaft belt - OEM is usually Unitta Sun or Gates; Contitech and Goodyear are good brands as well. The common aftermarket part number is TB186.
13407-P0A-000 balance shaft belt tensioner spring - AFAIK only Honda sells these. Some people recommend replacing them when changing the belt but I don't usually find it to be necessary.
14400-PT0-004 timing belt - OEM is usually Unitta Sun or Gates; Contitech and Goodyear are good brands as well. The common aftermarket part number is TB187.
14510-PT0-004 timing belt tensioner - OEM is Nippon Seiko (a.k.a. NSK). I also recommend Koyo or NTN which are also OE bearing suppliers to Honda.
14516-P0A-000 timing belt tensioner spring - AFAIK only Honda sells these, but I've never looked for them aftermarket because they're so cheap.
19200-P0A-003 water pump - OEM is usually Yamada/Yotec, Atsugi/Paraut, or Aisin depending on model. I also recommend NPW. Do not use GMB; they leak prematurely.
38920-PT0-004 alternator & A/C compressor belt - For accessory belts, the OEM suppliers Bando and Mitsuboshi are best; this one is a 5PK-1105. Contitech is okay; Dayco Poly Cog and Goodyear Gatorback belts aren't very good and tend to squeal.
56992-PT0-J02 power steering pump belt - Again, Bando and Mitsuboshi belts are best; this one is a 4PK-1070.
91213-PT0-003 camshaft seal - NOK and Arai make a majority of Honda's oil seals. These are inexpensive from Honda and always in stock; I'd just buy one at the dealer.
91233-PT0-003 balance shaft seal - Again, OEM is NOK or Arai. Inexpensive from Honda.

Now that you've read up on the subject, you should be able to make more informed parts choices.

One last point I'd like to make . . . while $1200 (I'm assuming CDN?) is a bit absurd for an F-series timing belt job, most of that price isn't due to the difference in parts cost. The difference between OEM and good aftermarket parts for the job is probably only about $100 or so as a guesstimate - not very much in the grand scheme of things. The hourly labor rate is what makes dealership service costly. Most Honda dealerships seem to get away with charging anywhere from 20-100% more per flat rate hour than independent shops. With a big job such as a timing belt service, it adds up quickly.

Targa250R

Oh and I almost forgot - you don't need to use OEM Honda (blue) coolant either. Just about any green coolant will do. Whatever you do, don't use DexCool (orange).

You'll probably also need some Hondabond HT or Honda Ultra Flange sealant. Honda chemicals are usually great, but if you don't have any on-hand, standard "import" gray RTV will work in a pinch.

hitechrr

Honda uses gates belts. I bought a gates kit from rockauto with the water pump, 2 tension adjusters, and 2 belts for $80. Same as honda belts.

Targa250R

Some of the OE timing belts are Gates, but the accessory drive belts are not. Honda uses Mitsuboshi and Bando almost exclusively for accessory belts.

nwf_snake

Search for "Timing Belt Kit Pro" on ebay. I have used them for 3 different Honda timing belt kits and they supply great quality OEM or better parts in there kits. Plus, the kits are very complete and contain everything you need.

GhostAccord

Wow $80 for a complete timing & balance belt kit. Be sure to keep us up to date when you have to change it next. I would like to know how long these parts last.

How many miles on the 3 of them so far?

nwf_snake

Between 10 and 25K. The "Timing Belt Kit Pro" ebay seller has a nice pic of all the parts included in the kits so you can see the manufacturer. Bando, Honda OEM, Felpro, etc...
No cheap parts, good quality OEM or better stuff.

19Accord97

Hmm...if it were me I would ONLY use OEM Honda parts.

Saving $100 now could cost you $1,000's if not a whole new motor if that unknown aftermarket timing belt breaks.

Targa250R

Hmm, some of those kits aren't bad at all. Take this D16Z6 kit for example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Timin...Q5fAccessories


For the kit pictured, the timing belt is Contitech, the water pump is Atsugi/Paraut, the tensioner is Koyo, the accessory belts are Bando, and it includes an NOK cam seal, NOK front crank seal, and a complete Ishino and OPT valve cover gasket set. All of those brands are OE suppliers except for Contitech, but Contitech belts are still trustworthy.

The only thing I don't like about that ad is this line: "The water pump is NPW or GMB." Does this mean that you will receive whatever they have in stock or feel like sending out? I'd much rather have an NPW water pump over a GMB. I've had quite a number of GMB water pumps leak prematurely as of late, while I've only had a single NPW pump failure out of hundreds installed.

I recognize some of the tags on those parts and I know what distribution center they're buying from; I buy a large number of parts from the same distributor.

So you wouldn't buy a Gates timing belt, an Aisin water pump, a Koyo tensioner, an OPT valve cover gasket, or Mitsuboshi accessory belts? Because that's exactly what Honda will be giving to you when you buy from them . . .

GhostAccord

That is a darn good price for those parts.

Is it just recently that you've been having problems with GMB? I put one on my car back in 02 and never had any problems with it. I bought another GMB for my ongoing build. Where are you seeing the leaks? I know that they were having problems with soft gaskets. I never used the ones that came with the GMB I always used an Ohtsuka gasket instead.

19Accord97

Hmmm....I thought I said an unknown aftermarket timing belt. But I guess not..... *rolls eyes*

lankan-balla

Hey i have a 2002 honda accord 2dr 4 cylinder SE which has 154 XXX KMS on it
Im thinking to change the waterpump/timing belt

Here is what i have found so far what do you guys think. P.s I want OEM let me know your thoughts on these products..



14400-PAA-A02 COnti-tech
14510-PTO-004 KOYO
13404-PT0-004 KOYO
13405-PAA-A03 CONTITECH
19200-P0A-003 AISIN OR PARAMUT ( SOMETHING LIKE THAT) it says here the gasket can be replaced since people have complained of a seal of some sort so theiralternative is... Engine water pump gasket by OP which is an OEM supplier)

lankan-balla

It all comes to 206 CDN buX

Fliptard

FYI, Gates did make belts for Honda, I've got a gates kit on 2 of my motors and they both have worked perfectly fine.

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-1999-20...84473a&vxp=mtr

I'm sure there's a comparable one in Canada. That is just an example. I purchased a kit from them for my '03 Pilot.

lankan-balla

I ended up getting this one from Cali...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/270791585228...84.m1423.l2649

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

Curious, why did you spend more to get non-oem parts?

brages

?? seems like a good price for good parts to me. Many of these parts seem like they are indeed made by the original equipment manufacturer, although I wonder if the quality is equal to the original part. The casting on the NPW water pump didn't seem quite as smooth as the original Honda part, for example.

Note that this $200 kit also includes the Bando alternator and p/s drive belt.

I put in a $155 kit recently, basically the same thing minus the drive belts. And there's a $95 kit that is like the $155 kit minus the seals. Lot of good options out there for quality timing belt kits on ebay, IMO...

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

Yes... and the $189 kit I linked to that's 100% Honda branded parts includes those belts as well. It seems silly to me to buy OEM-equivalent parts for $12 more.

brages

$189 kit has no tensioners; the Lemon Grove OEM kit with tensioners is $311:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-1999-20...a9e93f&vxp=mtr