mejim707

Ok, I have recently started looking into a few codes shown after a newer engine swap on my 99 Honda Accord LX 2.3L 4Cyl. The codes are p1457 and p0401.

As a little history, I replaced the engine with the same type due to a balancer belt break that pulled my timing belt off and wiped out my valves. Prior to the belt break, the old engine ran with no codes.

Following the swap I immediately had problems with badly fluctuating idle speeds. I also had a code of p1457 show up telling me that the evap valve could be bad. To fix the idle issue I had to tap on the drivers side of the Plenum until the idle became normal. I figure something within the Plenum was stuck, like the diaphragm?

First, since the old engine ran with no codes, I figure the p1457 code was related to a part on the "new" (junk salvaged - but low miles and runs incredible) engine and not the evap valve itself. I know the evap valve runs a hose to the engine, connects to a solenoid attached to the Plenum then feeds a line into the Plenum at the butterfly end.

Second, the code P0401 recently popped up and is related to the EGR valve. The valve is tested good and snaps open properly. The openings to and from the EGR look to be plenty clear. The EGR also feeds into the Plenum at the butterfly end.

So, with all that crap said, could both of those codes simply be from clogging within the Plenum? If so, how difficult is it to remove the Plenum for cleaning? I see 4 bolts holding it in place, 2 close to the firewall but maybe accessible? If anyone has an image of the inside of the Plenum I would love to see it prior to diving in.

Any comments or help with this would be great!

AccordVT

I'm not too familiar with what codes P1457 and P0401 actual descriptions are but you say one is for the EVAP Purge Control Solenoid Valve and the other for the EGR Valve. First try removing the 7.5 A (back up) fuse from the under-hood fuse box for 10 seconds with the ignition off. This will reset the ECU. After reinstalling, starting the car and letting it idle, see if the MIL flashes and the codes return.

For the EGR code, check vacuum hoses (cracks, leaks, restriction) to the EGR Solenoid Valve and the EGR Vacuum Control Valve. Remove the hose from the EGR Valve with the engine at idle, there should be vacuum (If you have a vacuum pump, put 200mm Hg to the valve itself, the engine should run rough) Also check all wiring and connectors. On the main connector harness going to the Control Box that houses the EGR Vacuum Control Valve and the EGR Control Solenoid Valve (Drivers side fender), you should measure battery voltage on the black/yellow wire with the key on. The EGR Valve, EGR Control Solenoid Valve, EGR Valve Lift Sensor or EGR Vacuum Control Valve could all be sources for an EGR fault.

Try some of those things for the EGR and post back

mejim707

First off thanks for the comments and suggestions!

I have reset the codes on the computer using a code reading device. The next day, or after driving about 25 miles, my commute, both codes come back. Now, there are four, they read as this p0401 pd, p1457 pd, p0401, p1457. It seems that they are duplicated but the first two are followed by that "pd" whatever that means. Perhaps you know?

There is no vacuum hose connecting to the EGR valve. The EGR valve sits on the engine where the inlet and outlet are cast into the aluminum. The seal has been checked and the gasket has been replaced to ensure a good seal. I have run the test where you remove the harness from the EGR and apply 12V to pins 4 and 6 on the EGR valve itself. This "should" casue the engine to stall or run real rough when the valve snaps open. In my case, the valve snaps open but the cars runs the same way it did prior to me applying the 12V. This suggests to me clogging somewhere? But, when I have the EGR valve off, and I look into the openings, both are for the most part clear, not clean, but open for flow. This brings me to the question if the opening in the Plenum, at the butterfly end, could be clogged and causing this.

As far as the Vent shut valve, that code only became present after installing the new engine. The new engine came with the solenoid at the engine. I never replaced that part. I will be running a test to apply 12V directly to the vent shut valve itself to listen for a "click" to ensure the electric is functioning or corrosion isn't stopping it.

Comments?

AccordVT

oops, I somehow must have just defaulted in my head to the 94-97 Accord with the 2.2L.
I believe there is still a EGR Valve Lift Sensor ontop of the EGR valve. There may be a problem there. It's not too likely that there is actually a block or restriction of EGR gas since the ports appear to be clean. I'm honestly just guessing that the PD on the repeat codes is just a "Pending Code" meaning the ECU has witnessed a fault but needs the fault to be reprouced several times before it is considered and identified as a true failure and the check engine light is set. Since you already have DTC codes already set your light is illuminated. I assume you got rid of the old motor? If you have another EGR valve or Lift Sensor, try substituting. The fact you had idle issues and codes pertaining to EGR and the Purge Solenoid valve really makes me think you have pirated air or a vacuum leak somewhere in the manifold. The IACV (idle) EGR system and EVAP system all use engine vacuum. Try spraying either carb and choke cleaner or propane around the intake manifold gaskets and throttle body with the engine running, If you see a jump in idle or a change in engine running, then you've found a leak.

mejim707

Good suggestion on the leak test. I'll give it a whirl. I have kept the old engine. I'll be getting rid of it soon but first I have to catalog my "inventory" now that I have a lot of goo extra parts! The EGR alone is $120 +. I have done the swap as you suggested bu no dice. Same beef. I have read to ring out the cable extending from the ecu to the egr. I can try that but don't expect much. So, would it also be a good idea just to remove the Plenum cover and clean the insides with the cover off?

AccordVT

Certainly wouldn't hurt to clean. I would focus on cleaning the throttle body and the EGR ports. Removing the throttle body and the intake manifold isn't incredibly complicated but getting access to certain bolts can be tricky. The FITV (Fast Idle Thermo Valve) is on the throttle body so draining the coolant is a good idea. Pay attention to harness location and wire color, take pictures. Your mainly going to be using a 12mm,10mm socket and wrench. Take the Upper plenum and throttle body off as one piece and prior to the removal of the lower. There are a few hidden ground wires and wiring connectors.

mejim707

Update: I removed the Plenum and cleaned it well. It wasn't complicated to get it off. Not nearly as complicated as removing the engine this past summer and replacing it. The EGR port at the plenum side was packed solid. After cleaning everything and putting it back together the car runs amazingly well! It runs how a low mileage engine should. Sadly though, the blasted 1457 code came back! I think the next thing I'll do is take the solenoid that controls the flow from the evap off the plenum and replace it with the solenoid from the old engine that never had this issue. That solenoid was on the new engine when I purchased it used. Since this device it at the top of the engine, and since the junked car it was in had no hood, I guess it's possible it's dead. Any suggestions on this? Do I know understand the EVAP system and perhaps this has nothing to do with it? Thanks for the info everyone!

mejim707

Ok, I just installed the EVAP Purge control solenoid from the old engine onto the new engine. We'll see how it goes. The car is running with the "Pending" code in the computer but has not yet shown the engine light. Why does it take so long for this stinking evap test to complete???

mejim707

Throw it at me peeps, what is the proper method to test the evap system? I'm about to go pick up a vacuum line tester to check my evap vacuum. It's driving me nuts this code 1457! The evap test doesn't run that often and the 45 minutes of driving, highway,city and idle or whatever, hoping for it to run is WAYYY to long to wait for it to simply come back and say "Yuck Fou!" . There has to be a better way to test this system to know you've licked the problem before the computer gets around to it. I'm wasting gas, I'm going to turn the car off now.

mejim707

Ok, I have tested the vent shut valve by applying 12v to the pins. No click, so i called advanced and autozone. Neither had it and I didn't want to put it together the way it was. I instead pulled it apart while still on the canister (I could not remove the screws! why the heck did they use philips heads????). Anyway, once apart i did confirm it was stuck. I pulled the center cylinder out and cleaned the shmoots off. The slider then slid free. I tested with 12 v and it worked. I then reassembled the device and tested vacuum with my hand pump vacuum tester and the whole unit held vacuum without loss. I've reinstalled everything. We'll see how it goes by tomorrow when I get to work! Does anyone have any comments on my course of action? Is this a terrible thing to do?

mejim707

Solved! Computer finished it's tests and all is well. No codes! Very pleased.