AFAccord

So the time has come to get retune the Accord with a few new mods, including my new Bisimoto Level 2 Camshaft. I have already installed the cam and checked for clearance issues that I was concerned about, but everything looks good now.

I would normally be fine with just a street tune to touch everything up because it's much cheaper than dyno time, but the uprising against Bisi's credibility has me motivated to get some actual numbers up for comparison. My tuner J. Davis, is working on getting some cheap dyno time scheduled for me. I'm confident he can bring out the best of this all-motor setup, despite the fact that he's much more partial to high-boost setups.

Without any more rambling, here's the setup for testing:

2000 Accord EX Coupe

• F23A1 Engine, stock bottom end with ~42k miles

• Mild port work on the head

• Milled head (.030", calculates to ~9.9-10.0cr)

• Bisimoto Level 2 Cam

• Bisimoto Pro Valve Springs

• Bisimoto Pro Retainers

• H23 Intake Manifold with Adapter Plate

• 70mm S2 Throttle Body, port-matched with manifold

• AEM Cam Gear with grade 8 bolts

• P61 ECU (92-93 GSR) chipped and tuned with eCtune

• AEM CAI (hacked up)

• eBay 4-2-1 header with 2.5" collector mod

• 2.5" Mandrel bent exhaust

• Vibrant Flat Black muffler

• Vibrant Ultra Quiet Resonator

• 12lb Lightened OE Flywheel

• LSD Motorsports 6-Puck Clutch

• Custom geared M2S4 5-speed transmission

That's all I can think of right now. The car has made from 169whp to 187whp depending on the dyno, which is why I plan to reinstall the stock camshaft and dyno a baseline run before swapping in the Bisi cam and tuning that. I'll post up details and a date as soon as I know something.

fatboy1185

in for results.

Remiss

good work definitly in for results

NeKe1point0

In for results too! What type of dyno will you be using ??

AFAccord

I don't know yet. A local legend in the area (Jason Goforth) just purchased it and took delivery about a month ago. Evidently he has some interest in the odd-ball F23 setup so he might be willing to cut me a break just to see how the F23 does. I'll try to find out.

EDIT: Here's his car on the homepage of one of the local race shops. "Fastest Import to ever appear on "Pinks All Out!"

http://www.phoenixmotorsportsonline.com/

Brad_and_the_acc

x2

AFAccord

I've received some PM's asking about parts fitment for the ARP studs and how I checked P2V clearance with a VTEC head. I'll address them here so everyone will know.

For the studs, H23 head studs are a direct fit. Plain and simple.

For the P2V clearance, I was very concerned since my head is milled quite a bit. The CORRECT way to do this is to pull the head off and place modeling clay in the valve reliefs, reinstall the head and rotate the engine assembly, then pull it back off and use a precision ruler to measure the thickness of the clay where it was crushed. This gives you an exact measurement of your piston to valve clearance.

I didn't have time to remove this head, so I just did a preliminary test. If done correctly, this will tell you whether you have clearance at all between the piston and the valve, but it is risky, and could ruin your engine if you don't do it right, or even if you miss-shift.

The first thing to do is to lock the VTEC rockers while you have the valve train off to install the cam. I only did this with cylinder number 1 since the others SHOULD be the same unless you have some serious rod stretch or bearing issues. You do this by reversing the 'dowel's' that run within the rockers. Just pull the VTEC rocker up and one of the two dowels in the primary rockers should pop out. Line up the VTEC rocker with the rocker that no longer has the dowel, and insert the shorter dowel into the open end of the VTEC rocker. This should push the longer dowel (from the VTEC rocker) partly into the primary rocker, and the shorter dowel you just inserted will hold it in place. Then, holding those dowels in place, line up the third rocker so they all stay in place. This locks the VTEC rocker to one of the primary rockers which pushes down the intake valve. Once this is done you can carefully reinstall the new cam and valve train along with the timing belt. Be sure not to let the rockers deviate from each other or you could drop some dowels down the oil passages!

The valves should still be lashed to stock specs at this point. I rotated the engine by hand, feeling for any binding and listening for sounds of any parts interfering with another. Everything was smooth, so I lashed both the intake and exhaust valves down until the set screw was flush with the retaining nut, and rotated again slowly. Luckily, nothing clicked, hit, or hung up for me. You have to pull the valve train back off to replace the rocker dowels into the correct position, then reinstall it. After that, I lashed the valves to stock specs and and double checked everything. Started her up and everything is running fine ever since. Like I said, this is a risky test, but at least at normal RPMs, I know I won't have any issues. Heaven forbid I miss a gear, then I might not be so lucky.

hon2984

Thanks! This should be added to the FAQ forum.

AFAccord

So, the cam is finally tuned! Just a street tune at this point, but it definately has an effect on the butt dyno.

At lower rpm (below 2.5Krpm) it feels pretty lethargic, but after VTEC engages at 2.5k it picks up nicely. Around 4900rpm the power band picks up quite a bit and the car strides forward, but by 5700rpm I ran into a problem. The powerband just dies around 5700rpm, and plateus all the way till redline at 6900rpm.

My tuner and I went over a few time-plot graphs on the laptop after the WOT runs and noticed that the car starts drawing vacuum at 5600rpm all the way to redline. I'm taking this as the stock IM and TB have finally become a major restriction. For now I'm leaving it as is, but I'll try to get the new IM and larger TB on in the next month and have it retuned, hopefully on a dyno.

Here's a chart of a 2nd gear pull using Dynolicious on an iPhone. You can see with the yellow line where power picks up around 8.5 seconds, and also where it falls on its face and fades away prematurely around 9.5 seconds.



For now I'm leaving it as is, but I'll try to get the new IM and larger TB on in the next month and have it retuned, hopefully on a dyno.

B16CRXT

I had the same problem with my LS Jason. My TB just was not big enough and it was pulling a lot of vacuum up top. I went from a 62mm to a 70mm and it helped, but it still drew vacuum up top. Gonna be hard not to with a big cam I think.

AFAccord

What IM are/were you using? My OE TB is like 56-58mm, somewhere around in there. I want to get that 70mm from PBT Chris on HMT and port match it to the H23 IM. J. Davis suggest I port the living hell out of the manifold before I install it, but I'm not too keen on that. I guess I don't have much to lose, and everything to gain though...

B16CRXT

I had the blox IM..basically an ITR copy. Was not port matched though.

AltimaXX

Wierdly enough my LS doesn't pull vacuum out to 7600 with my stock 60mm TB, even after the cams. I figured I would need to step up to an ITR 62mm. That cam should make great power once you open the intake side up Jason.

DerangedEG

In for better results!

Gnate

^ x2

AFAccord

Well, the car has been street tuned with everything installed, but I've run into various issues. I went ahead and make some pulls on the dyno, and wasn't very impressed with it. If I can get the car tuned on the dyno again and overcome some of my previous issues, it should make much more power. It feels as if the bottom end is beginning to give out as well, with oil consumption increasing over the past month or so. Anyway, here were my 'inconclusive' results.








Until then, I've got a deployment to worry about. I've put enough time and effort into this motor for now. I'll be leaving soon, and I just ordered my next car, so it's time to detune the Accord a bit and restore her road manners so my parents can drive her while I'm gone. I'm going to go ahead and offer up this cam for sale, and maybe when I return, I will purchase a new one, or even go with a level 3 hard weld, depending on what I do with the Accord at that time.

0Janet@bisimoto

Awesome thread!

detailzdelivere

pm if you do decide to part it...

0Sales@Bisimoto.com

any updates on this? possibly with a proper tune?

AFAccord

Overall, I'm impressed with the results in comparison to other modified N/A F23's, but honestly, I expected much more. That being said, I don't know of any stock block F23's making this much power. Comparing the before/after dynos, I am pretty disappointed in the yeilds from the full exhaust, Bisi cam, and intake manifold. I'm not putting down Bisi's work by any means. Everyone has seen plenty of evidence to prove those guys know what they're doing and get great results. I selected every part and performed every mod to the best of my ability, but for some reason it just didn't work out.

I know for a fact it could do better with some dyno time. How much? I don't know, but with three weeks before I leave to Afghanistan, I have no motivation to invest any more time or money into this car. I'd like to boost it when I get back, but with a new 335i sitting in my driveway, I don't see myself putting much effort into the Accord.

Unless someone is able to donate dyno time, the car will continue to be a daily driver until I put it in storage or part it out, so we all know how that will end.

michaelp4283

hey man, if it means anything you've been some serious inspiration for me to tuff it out and stick to my F23. thank you!

Gold DA9

how much will you be selling your cam for? Will it work in a f22b1?

jr_deleon

iTrader: (1)

Good luck on the deployment and nice numbers nonetheless!