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Old 02-01-2012, 01:11 PM   #1
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Default F22b1 Timing belt install. Now have knocking noise?

- So I have a 95 accord ex 4cylinder

- I replaced the timing and timing balance belts. I replaced the camshaft seal, front balance shaft seal, and crankshaft seal. I also put in a new water pump.

- After I finished it started right up and had no issues. While I was waiting for the engine to warm up to get the fans to kick on for the final step I noticed a light tapping noise that slowly got louder. I narrowed it down to being towards the bottom of the timing belt cover. It kind of sounded like something was tapping on the timing belt cover. It's not a loud bang or anything but something is definitely not right. Also I can't really rule out that it is in the engine but If it was it was definitely towards the bottom driver side.

So at this point the only thing I can think of is to pull the whole damn thing apart again and start it up with the timing cover off and see if that eliminates the noise. Anyway that is my personal hell. I hope I didn't do any permanent damage to the engine. Any help is very appreciated.
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Old 02-01-2012, 01:44 PM   #2
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Default Re: F22b1 Timing belt install. Now have knocking noise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by emfman View Post
- So I have a 95 accord ex 4cylinder

- I replaced the timing and timing balance belts. I replaced the camshaft seal, front balance shaft seal, and crankshaft seal. I also put in a new water pump.

- After I finished it started right up and had no issues. While I was waiting for the engine to warm up to get the fans to kick on for the final step I noticed a light tapping noise that slowly got louder. I narrowed it down to being towards the bottom of the timing belt cover. It kind of sounded like something was tapping on the timing belt cover. It's not a loud bang or anything but something is definitely not right. Also I can't really rule out that it is in the engine but If it was it was definitely towards the bottom driver side.

So at this point the only thing I can think of is to pull the whole damn thing apart again and start it up with the timing cover off and see if that eliminates the noise. Anyway that is my personal hell. I hope I didn't do any permanent damage to the engine. Any help is very appreciated.
Tahts what I would do. Take it back apart.
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Breaking the bank, maybe. Feeling like a boss, likely.
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Old 02-01-2012, 02:09 PM   #3
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Default Re: F22b1 Timing belt install. Now have knocking noise?

Update:

I went back out and started it up hoping the noise would go away. I listened real closely as it settled into its normal idle and I could tell the noise was there all along I just couldn't hear it until it got to the normal idle. I'm pretty sure there is something in the timing cover that is knocking in sync with the engine.

I guess the good news is I have all my tools laid out and should be able to pull it apart alot faster than I did last time now that I don't have to read as I go.

Anyone know if there are any issues with starting it up without the power steering,alternator and compressor belts connected.

I'm guessing it is safe to assume the timing is correct if it starts and runs without issue. And by run I mean idle. I aint driving it anywhere till i get the noise resolved.
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Old 02-01-2012, 02:24 PM   #4
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Default Re: F22b1 Timing belt install. Now have knocking noise?

You'll be fine with those unhooked. I did that alot when I do my timing belt.
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Breaking the bank, maybe. Feeling like a boss, likely.
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Old 02-03-2012, 03:41 PM   #5
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Default Re: F22b1 Timing belt install. Now have knocking noise?

Update:

I forgot to install the oil pump gear housing o ring and picked one up today. I got home and tore it all open again and put in the new o ring. I didn't remove the timing belt but I did tension it again. I then put the timing balance belt on and tensioned it. I put the valve cover on and attached the crank pulley and left the accessory belts off and started it up. It ran great. No noise. The sun set on me and I had to call it quits. I did get the engine warmed up enough to get the fans on twice and then I shut it down. I guess I'll attach the timing cover next time I get a chance and start it up again without the accessory belts and hope the noise does not return. If it does I guess I'll fiddle with how the cover is attached and see if I can get it to go away. Good news is the engine is not making the noise I heard. Something must definitely be knocking against the timing cover.

Is it really necessary to replace the thermostat if you replaced the water pump? I got a new thermostat but I'm curious if this needs to be done immediately or can I get to it whenever I feel like it.
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Old 02-03-2012, 07:58 PM   #6
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Default Re: F22b1 Timing belt install. Now have knocking noise?

you could replace the thermostat for preventative maintenance but if your not overheating after warmed up then i would say your old thermostat is working fine. check and make sure the bottom radiator is gets warm once the fans come on
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Ghost, Okay so I tried that and there was no air bubbles but the coolant did start to over flow without the cap on.
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Just for shytes and giggles, when did the coolant started to overflow?
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:22 AM   #7
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Default Re: F22b1 Timing belt install. Now have knocking noise?

Well i got it all together and the noise if gone. Guess I put something in wrong when I assembled the first time. At this point I am almost finished with a valve adjustment and then I'm going to clean the egr passages.

As far as valve adjustment goes I find it very hard to determine what a slight drag is. I have tightened them to the point where I have a decent drag. I noticed that depending on what angle you are holding the feeler gauge you get a different amount of drag. I am assuming that I should base my "slight drag" on the drag that is the least amount as I move it at different angles. Is this correct?

I basically got them all to the point where they drag... not slide though the point I am measuring. Seems to me you can get a very slight drag that is almost not noticeable unless your moving it around with the tips of your thumb and index finger or you can grip it like a golf club "thumb pointed at the valve your adjusting" and get a nice solid drag with no spots sliding through quickly.

Honestly my gauge is probably worn down from the amount use I have put them through trying to get these valves correct.
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Old 02-10-2012, 02:17 PM   #8
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Default Re: F22b1 Timing belt install. Now have knocking noise?

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Originally Posted by emfman View Post
Well i got it all together and the noise if gone. Guess I put something in wrong when I assembled the first time. At this point I am almost finished with a valve adjustment and then I'm going to clean the egr passages.

As far as valve adjustment goes I find it very hard to determine what a slight drag is. I have tightened them to the point where I have a decent drag. I noticed that depending on what angle you are holding the feeler gauge you get a different amount of drag. I am assuming that I should base my "slight drag" on the drag that is the least amount as I move it at different angles. Is this correct?

I basically got them all to the point where they drag... not slide though the point I am measuring. Seems to me you can get a very slight drag that is almost not noticeable unless your moving it around with the tips of your thumb and index finger or you can grip it like a golf club "thumb pointed at the valve your adjusting" and get a nice solid drag with no spots sliding through quickly.

Honestly my gauge is probably worn down from the amount use I have put them through trying to get these valves correct.
I'm glad you got your noisy timing belt figured out.
I had one make the most awful noises on start-up awhile back because I set my belt too tight.

You want to draw your feeler gauge as straight and level as possible between the valve stem and rocker arm.
Any angle you add when holding the feeler gauge will throw off your accuracy.
Its a good idea to coat the gauge in some oil as well, this way your not getting hung up on friction between two bare metals.
Oh and you likely already know, but make sure your engine is stone cold when adjusted.

It takes time to get used to using feeler gauges, for something so precise there is an alarming amount of personal judgment in using them correctly.

"Slight drag" is however, just what your looking for.
Good luck sir.
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:10 PM   #9
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Default Re: F22b1 Timing belt install. Now have knocking noise?

i always loosen/tighten to the point where it just moves after not being able to move it. there needs to be a very small amount of resistance. and like stated above keep the gauge as level with the valve as possible though once you get the "feel for it" you will be able to do it very quickly without worrying about the angle so much.

make sure when you check the clearance again after tightening them to make sure they are still in spec. i always remove the top timing belt cover to make sure the lines on the side of the camshaft are aligned with the head to assure for an accurate measurement at tdc.
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Ghost, Okay so I tried that and there was no air bubbles but the coolant did start to over flow without the cap on.
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Just for shytes and giggles, when did the coolant started to overflow?
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Old 02-11-2012, 04:56 AM   #10
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Default Re: F22b1 Timing belt install. Now have knocking noise?

I appreciate the feedback on the valves. I think I am on the right track. I think what has taken me so long is re adjusting them to the point where they all have the same amount of drag. I guess I developed a better feel for it as I went and once i started to get it I had to go back and adjust the ones I started out on. I'll hopefully wrap up my engine work today. It's snowing but I got an easy-up and a propane ice fishing heater. If i can stay warm I should finally get this car on the road today.
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Old 02-11-2012, 10:27 PM   #11
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Default Re: F22b1 Timing belt install. Now have knocking noise?

sounds like you did good, doing valves definetly just take time to get used to the feel, First time I did valves correctly it took me over an hour, now I will do the valves on one of these SOHC hondas in like 10-15 min, that is valve cover and all, unless that VC gasket has been neglected and is hard to get out. By tightening the belts I hope you didn't put additional tension over the springs, you know you get your marks, take the plugs out, two full valve cycles, loosen the tensioner bolt and you see it take up some slack, and again. If additional tension was applied you could stretch it out and it will break pre mature. Over all you sound like your getting it. I love doing TB,(BSB), water pump jobs. Fast, Gravy money.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:45 AM   #12
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Default Re: F22b1 Timing belt install. Now have knocking noise?

Overtighten the belt? Hmmmm I don't like the sound of that. Now you got me sweating it. When I went back in I left the timing belt and the pulley alone. I took off the balancer belt and pulley and then did the oil pump gear housing o ring. I then re tensioned the timing belt pulley by cranking the cam shaft three teeth counter clockwise. I then set the adjusting screw and put in the bolt to hold the timing tensioner in place while I assembled and tensioned the balancer belt assembly. I did not rotate the timing belt two cycles (5 turns I think the book says) again before I tensioned the timing belt. I figured that process was only to seat the belt correctly which was already done. At least that is what the book says is why you rotate it. "seat the belt properly". I did however give it the half twist test and it felt about the same as when i tensioned it the first time. I did notice the first time and the second that the timing belt seemed to be alot tighter than the balancer belt.

I don't know if its perfect but this is a beater car for me and a new over tensioned belt should certainly be better than the one that was on there that I think had 120k on it.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:16 AM   #13
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Default Re: F22b1 Timing belt install. Now have knocking noise?

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Originally Posted by Crawler89 View Post
sounds like you did good, doing valves definetly just take time to get used to the feel, First time I did valves correctly it took me over an hour, now I will do the valves on one of these SOHC hondas in like 10-15 min, that is valve cover and all, unless that VC gasket has been neglected and is hard to get out. By tightening the belts I hope you didn't put additional tension over the springs, you know you get your marks, take the plugs out, two full valve cycles, loosen the tensioner bolt and you see it take up some slack, and again. If additional tension was applied you could stretch it out and it will break pre mature. Over all you sound like your getting it. I love doing TB,(BSB), water pump jobs. Fast, Gravy money.
What are you talking about??
You cannot place additional load on the springs by overtightening the belt.
The camshaft is fixed in place by its respective bores in the cylinder head casting and CANNOT move in any direction regardless of timing belt tension.

To the OP, you can overtighten the timing belt and cause premature wear however.
Go through the FAQ regarding this and make sure you followed the proper steps to set tension.
How-To: Replace Timing Belt, Timing Balancer Belt and Water Pump on a F22B1
Pay particular attention to step 24.
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:42 PM   #14
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Default Re: F22b1 Timing belt install. Now have knocking noise?

So yesterday was a bust. Just too cold and snow. Today however the wind settled down and I was able to get at it with sun on my back. I dug into the EGR passages and sure enough mine were clogged. It was kind of like the consistency of 3 week old extra sticky brownies. Anyway cleaned it out reassembled and then put on my valve cover with new seal. Closed it all up and put in some new spark plugs to boot. Took it for a drive and it ran great. No weird noises and the valve train sounded nice and quiet.

Before I put the valve cover on I checked the timing belt by twisting it from what I could get a hold of with the top cover off. It felt fine to me. I really don't know for sure if it is tightened perfectly but I have heard that it will make a whirring noise if too tight and there was none of that. Unfortunately I have done the timing belt job twice now and I aint doing it again. It's all sealed up and I really doubt I will own the car long enough to break the timing belt even if it went early. I am a contractor and I drive a giant truck everyday so this will only be for trips into town on weekends and the occasional road trip.

I greatly appreciate all the help.
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Old 02-13-2012, 09:04 AM   #15
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Default Re: F22b1 Timing belt install. Now have knocking noise?

So I can see how my wording wasn't read how I intended, I ment I have done it once in my day, and have seen it done when a belt isn't done correctly to start with and feels loose. But I ment using more tension than the spring provided.
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