sgull

Pictured is the cam seal that needs to be replaced on my 92 accord. I'm uncertain how to go about removing the cam sprocket/bolt so I can replace the seal. Seems like I'd need a way to hold the camshaft solid/tight enough to loosen the bolt, then tighten it back it back on afterward (to the spec of 27 ft lbs). And seems like the idea of putting the camshaft in a vice to hold it would not be a good one.

MAD_MIKE

The easiest way would have been to remove the sprocket while the cam was still on the head. Stick a screwdriver through a window while loosening the bolt. But I take it the head is now at a machine shop?

If you still have the old timing belt, wrap it around the sprocket, and then clamp the timing belt in a vise and loosen the bolt. Don't use the new belt as this can damage it.

Or

Take two blocks of wood making a sprocket sandwich and put the sprocket in a vise and loosen the bolt.

I would leave everything apart until after you have the head reassembled with the camshaft installed. Then tap the seal in place with a large socket, and then install the sprocket.

djkurious

MAD_MIKE has some great techniques!

sgull

Thanks MAD_MIKE for the helpful reply. The sprocket sandwich sounds good to me.

sgull

The sprocket sandwich idea worked fine and easy, no complications. (After all, this isn't exactly "sprocket" science). lol
I was wondering also why the suggestion to leave everything apart until after I have the head and camshaft reinstalled before putting the new seal on and then tapping in the seal in place with a large socket. Any problem with going ahead and putting the new seal in place onto the camshaft now, beforehand, and just do the sprocket sandwich again to tighten the sprocket/bolt back on?

MAD_MIKE

You really can't get the seal squared to the cam/head if you are clamping it down. I can see more damage being done to the seal and possibly the cam from doing the work floating in space. Cams are strong torsionally, but if it gets whacked in the wrong spot it can break in two.
I would install the cam but not the seal or sprocket until the cam is installed first.

sgull

Okay I get what you're saying. The more sensible method would be to do as you suggest (probably the way it's normally done anyway, eh?), instead of that other approach I probably would've taken otherwise. Thanks.

holmesnmanny

put the old seal over the new seal so you don't damage the new seal while tapping it in with a socket that fits it...you don't care if you damage the old seal obviously

sgull

Thanks for that tip.

sgull

Here's a picture of the cam lying loosely on the cylinder head. I slipped a new cam seal on it and have the cam sprocket loosely bolted on the end of the camshaft, just to take the picture and make another inquiry here at this point.
I understand it is not a good idea to clamp down onto the cam/head (with the rocker assembly and cam holders) with the cam seal in place already like this, and that as advised I should install the camshaft first before the seal or sprocket. If I proceed to
remove the cam seal and then install the rocker assembly to clamp down the camshaft, and then tap the seal in place with a large socket, my question is what is the method to hold the camshaft with the sprocket solid and kept from turning while I tighten the camshaft sprocket bolt.

MAD_MIKE

The sprocket and cam shaft will be locked together via the keyway.
With a screwdriver or socket extension, slide it through one of the windows of the cam sprocket and rest it on top of the head. Rotate the sprocket to hold the extension and prevent the sprocket/cam from rotating as you torque the bolt. It's only 26lbft, you will not run the risk of damaging the sprocket or head by holding the sprocket.

After this I see no reason why not to install the camshaft belt. With the rockers off, even if the timing was set completely wrong there is no worry of the valves hitting the pistons.

sgull

Okay now I've removed the cam seal and the sprocket from the shaft and placed the laid the camshaft back onto place on the head. If I'm understanding correctly, I should now go ahead and secure/clamp down the rocker assembly, then use a big socket to tap the new seal into place on the end of the shaft, then place the sprocket onto the end of the shaft, then use a screwdriver or socket extension through a window of the sprocket and rested on top of the head to keep the sprocket/cam from rotating as I torque the bolt. Does that sound correct, does it seem I understand the process?
Also, at this point I seem to be having trouble getting the rocker assembly completely flat against the head, before threading any of the assembly bolts in. I'm making sure the rockers aren't rocked down underneath and that none of the bolts are binding in the threaded holes of the head as I try to lay it down flat into place. I seem to get it almost all the way flat but not all the way. Does the camshaft have to be turned just right for it to sit flat, or should it start tightening down flat once I begin the tightening sequence of the bolts? Is it just a matter of "wiggling" it down into place or should I try to tap it down flat with a rubber mallet? I don't want to be trying forcing it if I shouldn't be forced.

sgull

Here's a few shots of the little gap I'm talking about in my post above, where the rocker assembly doesn't seem to want to fall right down flat onto the head.

sgull

In some instructions I came across talking about replacing the camshaft the guy says to put some hondabond on the outside of the cam seal. http://www.hondaaccordforum.com/foru...lacement-3080/
And his method in the write-up seems to be placing the new seal on the shaft before installing the rocker assembly, not tapping the new seal into place afterward as mentioned in post #2 and #6 here. Comments please about that? thanks

GhostAccord

There is always more than one way to skin a cat. Ether way will work, you just have to be careful not to damage the seal casing. I have always done it the way stated in the Honda shop manual. That is to install the seal on the camshaft, install the camshaft and then lower the rocker assembly onto it. I use Hondabond between the cam caps where the oil seal is.

sgull

My manual (Chiltons-- I know, crap in comparison to regular Honda shop manual, but all I have) says install the new cam seal on the camshaft, then put the camshaft in place, then put "gasket sealant" to the head mating surfaces of the outer cam holders, then set the rocker arm assembly in place and install the bolts finger-tight, then use a seal driver (I'd actually be using a large socket) to seat the cam seal, then tighten the rocker assembly bolts in the correct pattern two turns at a time until final torque.
Questions:
1. What is the purpose of "seating" the cam seal with the socket afterwards? To me it looks like once I slip the new seal onto the camshaft and put them into place on the head that the seal is already flush/seated as far its gonna go. I don't see understand where it needs to be any further "seated".
2. The mention of using a "gasket sealant" on the head mating surfaces of the outer cam lobes. But it doesn't mention using such on the cam seal itself. But is it still a good idea to put some around the cam seal anyway, or not?
3. Hondabond specifically has been mentioned in this thread. I realize its a whole other discussion (I've read the debates etc) whether I can just use Permatex Grey instead for this. Because I can buy Permatex Grey locally and there is no Hondabond available where I live I'd need to order it through a dealer etc which we don't have locally either. So I happen to have 3/4 of a tube of Permatex Black. How about that?
4. Still haven't had a comment and would appreciate any in regard to my inquiry in post #12 here, the second paragraph where I'm asking about the rocker assembly setting flat, and the pictures in post #13.

GhostAccord

1) The reason for seating the seal again after instal is to ensure that it didn't pull back as the cam caps were lowered and tightened. aka piece of mind.

2) I only put Hondabond (Permatex grey) on the ends of the two cam caps were they come in contact with the seals. Putting sealant around the entire seal is overkill and could end up being more of a nuisance.

3) I use Permatex grey without issue!

4) To be honest I would imaging that that gap is from the dowel pins and should tighten up as the bolts are tightened.

In saying that, have you backed off all of the valve adjusting screws?

sgull

Thanks GhostAccord for answers to those questions I had. Yeah maybe just dowel pins, but no I did not back off the valve adjusting screws, so will do. I noticed my manual said to do that too but just seemed to me the rocker arms weren't causing the problem, so I didn't think necessary to bother. But will do anyway.

GhostAccord

If you look closely there should be one or two cam lobes that will be in the partially open range, this will cause the rockers to sit up on the valve stems if the adjuster nuts aren't backed off.

I always back them off before I remove the assembly. It's best to do a complete valve adjustment any time you remove the rocker assembly anyway. Also keeps them from possibly binding with the valve stems.

Best of luck, any more questions don't hesitate to ask.

sgull

After re-setting the assembly onto the head and observing more closely while doing it, I did notice the two rockers were sitting tight (slight to no clearance,) on the stems of the #2 exhaust valves. After backing off the adjusting screw on those the assembly now indeed seems to have settled on there better. Thanks again. And yes, am planning to go ahead with complete valve adjustment as per recommendation.