Math Tom

(Note: Thanks NeKe1point0 for all your work on step by step head gasket replacement - my engine is VTEC F23A1 - is it mostly the same?)

170,000 miles, A/T, A/C. Purchased in 2003 with 65,000 miles; it's been the best car I've ever owned. I have taken meticulous care of it - no significant overheating (a couple of times it went up about 20 degrees when low on coolant), frequent oil changes, etc.

One exception: I neglected flush & fill for a couple of years, and traveling from Florida to Michigan in January I was ice cold in the car. Took it to local garage to get heater core flushed - he said it has bad head gasket. Called mechanic in FL, he said very unlikely, so I asked the local guy to please just flush heater core - he did and it heated up fine. Only other cooling problem was I blew upper hose (probably original) a month ago and replaced it easily.

Now I have oil in the coolant again (after several flush & fills), absolutely no coolant in crankcase, and gurgling in radiator. It is a complete mess when I open the cap. I replaced cap today (outer seal on cap was bad) and system worked OK for a while but then when I got home steam came from under cap as if it were overheating. But the dash gauge read normal (gauge is fine). Exhaust is very clean and engine runs very strong, and I always heard about Honda engine longevity so I'm very confused here.

Read up on this, and the first thing I'll do is replace head gasket, so I'd love any feedback about that - do I need all upper gaskets or just head gasket & valve cover gasket? And do I need to replace head bolts? I know about checking block & head for flatness, pitting, etc.

The other thing I've read is that Honda cranked out a few turkeys about then and I may be looking at internal metal failure. That's scary - it would pretty much total a very good automobile.

Sorry so long - thanks in advance for feedback.

TM

jweller

and it sounds like you've got one of them. Sorry.

not sure what to tell you to search for, but the block cracks in between the water jacket and the high pressure oil feed. There are some threads on here talking about it. Honda knows about this, but there aren't enough of them for there to be a recall.

A used F23 is going to cost you around $500. Installation will depend on who does it.

mine went bad at 125k, I replaced the motor with one from a junkyard and I now have 250k on the car, 200k on the motor. cost me 3k to get the job done and that was with a timing belt, water pump, new rad hoses, new rad, new clutch, and some other small things.

Math Tom

Thanks for response - not what I was hoping. Sounds like it would be pointless to replace head gasket then.

Weird - temp gauge reads normal but heater is not putting out so it seems there is no coolant flowing through heater core - could it be because of air/gas pressure in cooling system? So that's why I leaned on head gasket. I can see where internal cracks force oil into coolant, but where is the air/gas pressure coming from?

YeuEmMaiMai

get another F23 block and go from there

FunnyVictor86

what area are you from, i have a spare F23A1 for sale

Math Tom

Western Michigan

FunnyVictor86

darn never mind ... it's cheaper to find one local ...

jweller

If you've seen the goo that your coolant turns into, it's easy to understand how it would clog a heater core. At some point it will get too thick for your water pump to move, and you will over heat the motor.

Math Tom

Very true, and thanks again. I've decided to a) tear down motor and inspect head gasket, b) IF head gasket is bad, replace & reassemble, and c)if head gasket is OK then replace engine & any other worn parts. No driving until then.

Meanwhile I've lost a great deal of respect for Honda. I bought this car for reliability - the last thing I need right now is another project. Engine failure of this magnitude is inexcusable.

jweller

Yes sadly, the legendary Honda reliability has become just that, a legend. New Hondas are pretty good, but not great like they used to be.

I would look into getting a shop to pressure test the block and coolant system before you tear it down. should be pretty straight forward and you can possibly save yourself tearing down the motor if it's complete toast.

and save yourself some heartbreak. pull the knock sensor off of the back of the block next to the oil filter before you remove the engine. They are fragile, EXPENSIVE, little bastards. you might need it on the replacement motor.

journeyforce

Hello,

Is this cracked water jacket problem prone to happening to all of the 98-02 F23 blocks or is this an isolated problem that at best may have happened to a few hundred or thousand? Is there a way to prevent this problem from happening??


For the OP:

If you like the car, source a replacement engine and put it in. It is cheaper in the long run then having a car payment and since you like your car give it a heart transplant and continue driving it

Good luck

L

jweller

In my personal experience, it has always been on 99s. I'm sure there is a casting lot but I am unsure what it is.

4.8t

does this problem usually make oil in the water or water in the oil or both?