joelion

My wife has a 96 Accord DX, 2.2L 4L SOHC, automatic. Non-vtec, i believe. It's a POS that wasn't taken care of by previous owners and was bought for cheap from someone who just bought it from auction, so I'm just trying to keep running if possible.

For a ~week she said it was idling roughly and making engine noise. When driving it last week, the power steering went out. She made one more stop, and was able to turn the car off/on before heading home. ~10 minutes after power steering went out, the engine just died - dashboard lights flashed, engine died, and she coasted into a parking lot.

I went to pick it up to tow home. It wouldn't start, but it still had power - lights turned on, fan started, etc, so the battery wasn't completely dead. The engine cranked, but never caught.

Turns out the crankshaft pulley bolt had almost come out and both of the belts were loose, hence no power-steering, and I thought maybe battery had died because of no alternator.

I replaced the crankshaft pulley (it needed a new one - previous owner and replaced original, installed wrong year with incorrect groove count, and didn't cut the key to length so the bolt wasn't even tightened enough), reinstalled the belts, jumped the battery, but it still won't start. The engine cranks and cranks, but there is no hint of ignition. Just continuous cranking at a higher-than-normal whine.

So questions:

• If the battery wasn't the problem, why did the engine die to begin with, a few minutes after the crankshaft pulley failed?
• I can't imagine this would be fuel or spark related, since the fail coincided with the crankshaft pulley.
• Is it possible when the crankshaft pulley almost fell off and was flopping around that the timing got messed up? How would I check for that?

any other thoughts? thanks.

nus_dogg

Do a compression test and see they are.

H22_CB7_JAY

x2.

I bet your crank timing is way tf off right now. Maybe it skipped a tooth when it all went to ****?

dnguyen2010

It's always good to check for the basic first: spark & fuel.
However, I have no doubt your timing off.

joelion

yup, so I get 80psi on cylinder #2, and nothing on the others.... Does that point to a skipped tooth or two?

Given the apparent cause of this (a loose/flopping crankshaft pulley), is there any way to suggest exactly where the problem is? Or regardless, does this call for a full timing belt replacement/adjustment?

Looks like I can follow this thread for instructions, along with my manuals
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-1990-2002-2/how-replace-timing-belt-timing-balancer-belt-water-pump-f22b1-1908944/

joelion

alright, got some good updates. I pulled the timing belt off and I think I see what happened.

When the crankshaft pulley bolt came loose, the key holding all of the pulleys to the shaft started wiggling out. The key worked its way out, and eventually came all the way out of the timing belt pulley, so effectively nothing except friction was holding the timing belt pulley to the crankshaft. Here's the position of the key slots on the crankshaft and timing belt pulley when I took the belt off. They're about 1/2 turn off



The pulley is being stubborn so I need to get some lube and a chain wrench to either get it off, or just re-align it to the shaft. But now I noticed something else. Behind the pulley is what looks like some kind of flat washer, with a lobe with a dimple. The lobe goes behind a sensor on each revolution, at the right of the picture below.

1) does anyone know if that is an independent washer, or is it a flange on the back of the pulley? I can't tell without pulling the pulley out, which I haven't been able to do yet.
2) If it's a washer, I assume it needs to be aligned with the pulley and crankshaft, so I guess it will have a key slot, and maybe the dimple on the lobe will be at TCD along with the arrow on the pulley?
3) Notice in the picture that the washer has a chip in it, on the right side. Anyone know if this will be a problem? As long as the lobe in in-tact, will the washer serve its purpose?

joelion

i got the pulley off, and the thing behind the pulley wasn't a washer, but a flange attached to the pulley. It does have a chip broken off, but both of the lobes and all of the teeth are fine, so I think i'm going to just reinstall it all. Should be up and running tomorrow, and now just hoping that there isn't any valve damage from when the timing belt stopped turning...

92 civic ex 4dr

I had that same problem. You're going to need a head buddy. The key came out and guaranteed that you have at least four bent valves.


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92 civic ex 4dr

It's a zero tolerance, or zero clearance (however you want to call it) engine.


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joelion

My dad was also pretty convinced that I probably bent some valves. I'm going to do a valve lift check and compression test today.

I've never done internal engine work before, so why is it easier/cheaper to get a whole new head instead of replacing a few valves?

92 civic ex 4dr

Well. It's not. It's easier to have a shop set the new valves and re seat them all the new and old ones. then they re surface the head, replace all of the worn valve guides, and replace the valve stem seals. Then by the time you get the head back from the shop is brand new and you start fresh.


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92 civic ex 4dr

When i had the head re built on my accord i was 236,xxx miles into the engine.


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joelion

yeah, mine's at 209k now, so maybe it's about time anyway. I'll probably just look around for a rebuild. Not too interested in taking this one into the shop or rebuilding it....

92 civic ex 4dr

You could always go the used JDM takeout route. Get a whole engine for around the price you will pay to rebuild or buy a re built. The engines are guaranteed to have Less than 45k.


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joelion

I took some valve lift on all 4 valves for each cylinder. Most of them were in the 0.330-0.337in range, but but Cylinder 2 exhaust valves were >0.345, and Cylinder 1 exhaust were <0.320. Is that enough of a difference to indicate damage? Do all the other measurements look to be within an acceptable range of each other?

92 civic ex 4dr

How did you check it? It should be checked by inserting a feeler gauge between the valve when closed and the rocker arm. Hood the rocker arm against the cam and use the feeler gauge.

Intake valve clearance should be 0.010 in (0.26mm) and exhaust should be 0.012 in (0.30mm).

The service limit for both exhaust and intake is plus or minus 0.0008 in (0.02mm)


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joelion

this was a much more low-tech/rough method of using a caliper to measure the closed and max-open positions of the valve spring retainer, relative to the head while someone else manually cranked the shaft. Method shown in this engine repair manual on page 15

joelion

well, after aligning all the pulleys and reinstalling the belt, cylinder 2 is the only one that has any compression, which I guess makes sense since C2 had the highest shut-off lift at .345in. All of the others must be pretty much uniformly bent. so... i guess that settles it. New head time.

92 civic ex 4dr

Well sorry to hear that. It's happened to me so i know how shitty it is


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Crxh22ajdm

I know how it feels man, get a head Rebuild, and get some new pistons rings

joelion

wouldn't that require pulling the pistons out? I'm not sure I want to make this that big of a job.

holmesnmanny

I would just get a used jdm engine.

Crxh22ajdm

yes, hmm well if tou want you can take your head to the machineshop and get it fix, ill cost you like 200$, and they will turnet back to you like new, you just need to installed back, and get the valves calibrated, make sure you also replace the gas filture, while head is off, its a pain in the *** to changed while head is on

sorry for miss spealling English is not my first language

tdohcaccord

i guess i was lucky, had the same issue, car died and once i realized what happened i realigned it all the the car is fine...

i would not replace the head and rings etc.. the money for the head work alone will be over 250.. i paid just over 300 on another head to have 4 new valves put in, all the other valves cleaned and relaped as well as a valve job and cleaning..

you can buy a used accord motor for under 500 and have it done in a weekend.

its just a cost thing.. if you want to go that far into it great. but id just move on with another motor and be done with it

joelion

yeah, thanks all. I called around to some shops today, and I'm looking at minimum $290 just for a normal valve job + re-surfacing. Plus $14+ per valve that needs replacing, and based on my compression tests, that will be at least 10-12 or more of the valves, plus guides and seats. Plus a new gasket set, so just for rebuilding my own head at least $500.

Buying a rebuilt locally is also at least $400, plus gaskets, so again ~$500. Some cheaper stuff on ebay, but those seem like a gamble.

I didn't think I wanted to replace the engine, but hell.... if it will give this car some new life, maybe it's worth it. I see one on JDM for $550. Does anyone know what shipping costs from JDM? Do they freight deliver it directly to a home? What's the usual shipping time?

My engine code is F22B2, so obviously getting a direct match would be best case for compatibility. But are there any other engines that would fit well without any major compatibility problems?