BenjaminJeffers

Hello Everybody,

I recently bought a 95 Accord EX and ive been attempting to smog and register the vehicle. Ive taken the Vehicle to smog testing twice and both times the car failed emissions.Theres about 150K miles on the car, standard transmission, No Check engine light

First smog test the car failed "Ignition timing: at 19 BTDC" "HC" and "NO".
I then did an oil/filter change, cleaned out the KN Air Filter (which was still practically new), Changed spark plugs, replaced negative battery terminal connector, cleaned out the EGR valves, added GUMOUT complete fuel system cleaner, Drove until the gas tank was empty, Filled it up with 91 octane and took it back to the smog test facility (a week later)

Second smog test .. I passed the "ignition timing" test this time around (15 BTDC) but i still failed emissions. I passsed everything else (PCV,Cat converter,vacuum lines,fuel injection,02 sensors and connectors)

this is how the test looked:
c02% / 02% / HC ppm / c0% / NO ppm
15mph 1832RPM 14.23 / .30 / 84 / .28 / 768
25mph 1933RPM 14.30 / .23 / 60 / .21 / 646

the guy at the smog test kept metioning that he had a hard time getting the car in 3rd gear. first time he said the clutch is completely gone. I found that hard to believe do to the fact that ive never had a problem with 3rd. i took the car on the freeway (over 55MPH/5th gear) to get it to the test shop. Second smog test (same techniction/shop) he told me the same thing. said i he wasnt getting any power in 3rd gear. Hes had to run the test twice each time i tested it. second time on both tests im assuming he got the car into 3rd. Technition wanted me to have the car diagnosed and repaired before i brought it back.

Any ideas or suggestions? i dont want to pay the extra money for vehicle diagnosis

any help would be appreciated

thanks

Grandhustleman86

not familiar with emissions testing but if you can shift the car into third fine (means no grinds-no popping out of gear) "slips right in with logical ease under normal driving conditions" then this shop might be hot-rodding the hell out of the car in this test or driving it abnormally as opposed to "normal speed-limit driving conditions".

Have you went to another shop? have you had a second opinion possibly a friend hop in the car and test that 3rd gear throw under normal driving conditions? I can only understand you failing emmssions logically by emissions standards bc this individual could be/is giving the car more throttle to get the vehicle into gear thus being "abnormal levels of exhaust in normal driving conditions" and failing the car. All speculation tho.

lazlong

Which one didn't pass? HC, CO or NO? It's kinda hard to read the results as you wrote them. Can you post a pic of the paper?

BenjaminJeffers

That was also an assumption that ive had.
No grinding, popping or slipping and maybe the technician is the problem. Ive gone back to the same guy twice now because he has a "no pass, no pay" policy.

But my emission levels are close to twice the legal limit. Could "hot rodding" the car raise emission levels that high at only 15-25mph?

BenjaminJeffers

Car failed HC and NO. barely made CO. Ill try and post a picture soon

lazlong

Yes, it could. Just for sh*ts and giggles try another "no pass, no pay" place and see what happens?

Word of warning: If you use another guy then it throws up a red flag in the system and they'll watch more closely. It looks like you're trying to get the other guy to pass you illegally. So, if it comes down to it, you can't just pass a $100 bill to a guy to pass it. He'll go down and you may get a fine too.
--------------------------

When you did the plugs what did they look like? Was there any carbon buildup or unburnt gas in the cylinders?

BenjaminJeffers

It might be a while before i can post a picture. Ill try to make the results more clear:

15 mph:
Co2%= 14.23
02%= .30
HC:
Max:61
Ave:28
Measure:84

CO:
Max:.36
Ave:.08
Measure:.28

NO:
Max:493
Ave:132
Measure:768

Results: fail

25 mph:
C02=14.30
02=.23

HC:
Max:37
Ave:17
Measure:60

CO:
Max:.35
Ave:.07
Measure:.21

NO:
Max:738
Ave:107
Measure:646

Results: fail

BenjaminJeffers

When i changed the spark plugs there was a slight amount of build up around the plugs but the cylinders themselves looked fine and no unburnt gas. Looked like they were due for a changing but nothing serious

MAD_MIKE

Quick glance, those numbers indicate running rich.

When you cleaned the EGR ports did you also verify that the feed port from the EGR valve(under the EGR valve) was also clear?

Does the car sputter or buck at all during cruise ~2000rpm?

Verify the spark is a solid blue/white arc. I have found yellow 'boogers' can form on the inside of the distributor cap and this will affect overall performance. They will pop/scrape off with a light pressure from a flat head screw driver. Verify the rotor is also clean and clear. Make sure there is no oil or dust inside the cap that may hinder spark, wipe it clean.

Verify there is no oil down the spark plug tubes. This can cause grounding via carbon tracking.

Verify the PCV valve is clean and clear of oil and gunk, also make sure there is no oil inside the line going to the manifold. If you have a CAI on the car, make sure the fresh air feed for the PCV system is hooked up correctly allowing proper circulation of air. The valve itself should rattle when you shake it. If not, clean or replace.

Verify your K&N filter is not over oiled, this can reduce air flow, which can also contribute to a rich condition. (too much fuel or not enough air)

Verify fuel pressure is not too high. F22 38-46PSI

FWIW CO2 should be ~15% and O2 ~.5%

BenjaminJeffers

so i showed the test results to my mechanic. He also said the vehicle was running too rich but also mentioned that when NO levels are too high it usually means the Cat is bad.

so i replaced the catalytic converter, took off the k&n air filter and replaced it with a paper filter, which actually had more space for air flow than the k&n did and took off the EGR to clean the main feed line and the unit itself.

The car passed with flying colors. Ran like a clean, new car. Well below the average

mission accomplished, thanks guys