ErrorAccord

Hey if anyone can give any kind of ideas to what's going, I'd really appreciate it! I'll try to be as descriptive as possible here so it might be kinda long.

I was driving home one evening when my car just died unexpectedly. I pulled it off the road, waited like 60 secs. and it started back up. The next morning I drove the car to my parents house. Considering the age of the car and the fact that the fuel pump hadn't been replaced since I've owned it, I changed the fuel pump and fuel filter. Obviously the car started up, pump worked fine etc etc etc. I get ready to take the car back to Dallas. No sooner than I get on the highway it dies again but this time wont restart. So i have it towed back to my parents house.

Scratch off the fuel pump and filter!!!

Next morning we take it to the shop where the mechanic told me the plug wires had cracks in the boots causing them to arc and overheat the coil, so he went ahead and gave me new plugs and wires. Now im no stranger to working on my car at all. I usually do everything on my car minus transmission stuff, but since moving to Dallas, TX I dont have the time or place. Anyways, I take it to the parents house before trying to take it back to Dallas and let it idle for a few mins. Somewhat confident I decide to take off. I get about 1/4 mile up the street and it dies again with no start. BTW: (When I say no start, I mean its cranks and nothing more.) We towed it right back to the shop for further evaluation.

The next morning the mechanic tells me that the EGR valve was stuck open causing emissions to flood the cylinders. That makes sense right! So he unstuck it and removed the vacuum hose. Now I know if the EGR stays closed it can cause detonation...so I went ahead and bought a new EGR valve and replaced the vacuum hose. I take the car out for a sunday evening test run through the neighborhood this time, so if it stalled out I wouldn't be far from home. After about 15 mins of driving, it dies yet again and wont restart. Even after letting it cool down for like 30 mins, it wouldn't restart. After a week I return from Dallas to work on the car yet again. We replaced the distributor cap and rotor this time. I start her up and let it warm up and sit in the driveway this time. Kinda tired of being towed home at this point.

Well now on the stationery test, it doesn't even get anywhere near being warmed up before it stalls out. I monitor my A/F gauge and its not reading overly rich or overly lean.

*Now if you noticed I haven't mentioned a Check Engine Light....BECAUSE ITS NOT ON*

It comes on for the normal 2 seconds during the fuel pump run then goes off.

Anyways, I restart the car after it dies and and let it warm up with a little throttle assistance. Once its fully warm, the idle is fluctuating around 300-500...I mean the engine doesn't sound strong at all! We let it sit for about 15 mins at idle and it has a really horrible idle. I slowly raise the RPM to about 1500 and when I do the car shakes like it's got a big block 572 in it or something. I mean its shaking like a Pro Stock drag car! Along with the shake comes a very horrible misfire as well.

Now we've replaced:

-Fuel Pump
-Fuel Filter
-Plugs
-Wires
-Cap
-Rotor
-EGR
-(although not mentioned, I replaced the coil as well)

The distributor was replaced about 8 or 9 months ago so it really shouldn't be bad...but you never know I guess.

The last two things I can think of are the Ignition Control Module and or the ECU.

Im thinking the ECU because as time went on since I've had the vehicle the RPM range kept getting lower and lower without any change in Ignition Timing or Cam to Crank timing. It went from pulling to 6000 ish to 5500 to 5200...finally down to 4000. I've read of people with similar problems as far as the RPM goes and most of them point to "limp mode."

Unfortunately I dont have any friends with ECU's I can swap out and I have no idea where to test it. A lot of people were saying its the PGM-FI Relay...but even after it dies, I get all 3 clicks from the relay. The ignition switch isn't the problem either because the car will remain started once I release the key.


Soooo....does anyone have A CLUE what this could be?

accord_raffi

You could start by checking to see if you're getting any spark.

davey5300

I had that same problem one time and it ended up being the main relay

HondaPartsHero

http://techauto.awardspace.com/ignition.html
http://techauto.awardspace.com/ignitionswitch.html

ErrorAccord

@ Raffi - I'm almost positive its getting spark. I could definitely check but I'd like to keep those checks to a minimum. I was reading another FAQ write up from another guy who went into how doing the old "pull a wire and crank the engine while looking for spark" test was bad for the coil and can wear it down rather quickly. But like I said, every piece of the ignition system is new. Once the car cools down it'll start but its just got a really screwed up idle and shake.

@ Davey - I was thinking the Relay too but even after the car stalls out I hear all 3 click. The pump still runs after it stalls...so that was the only thing thats kinda diverting my attention from the relay.

@ HPH - That's a very good link. Thanks! The only thing about the ignition switch is, the car will run after the key's been released. The warning lights come on like regular after the car stall. Its like once it stalls, it's done for a while...but once its completely cooled off, it starts back up like normal.


...if the ECU is bad, I know that's a code 0...but I've also heard of codes being stored and not setting a CEL...but I dont know if that's the case here.

its just frustrating cause we've already spent $600 on parts it could've been and we still dont have it figured out.

accord_raffi

Not being able to start a car after the engine is warm could be the main relay as the other member mentioned.

ErrorAccord

yeah that's what the guy at Orielly said...but what would cause the misfire and crappy idle? It seems as though the two are interrelated.