Scott Little

I went ahead and created the Extension adapter i needed for the wiring harness. Had a lot of telcon meetings this morning so i had nothing better to do. This is purely to fix the mistake i made when rebuilding the harness. Still not sure how the wires ended up too short but i didn't want to carve up the completed harness. I am definitely liking the wrap on the wires. In the future i think ill always use it to keep things clean.


8 pin Male to 8 pin female Extension cable.

Scott Little

Thank you Tachi.
Ill look into the traction bar setup but i think the notches i put in should be ok, ill keep an eye on it and if need be ill upgrade. Maybe ill add it later on just for the cool factor. haha

I was going to just put on my AEM CAI from the F22b2. I believe it should fit, i'm not sure about performance. My main concern at this point is just sorting out the exhaust. I don't plan to tow it to the muffler shop and i cant drive it open so it complicates things. I dont have the cash for a new header, i wouldn't want to buy an ebay special, the piping is just too thin and it gets a little too loud.

Tachi

1.) That's a very neat looking jumper you built there. Looks as professional as the rest of the installation.

2.) The traction bars also help with hook-up and controlling wheel hop when launching the car. Really what it is is a replacement front crossmember and adjustable tension rods so you can play with caster.

3.) The CAI isn't bad, just watch the puddles. But they're 2.5", long, and will keep the powerband towards the middle. Not bad, especially with the extra displacement this engine has. But the shorter one I speak of will wake the engine up a bit in the upper rpm range. And the velocity stack will flow more air in as well so overall should net more power.

4.) For getting it on the road, if the engine came with the complete exhaust manifold, that's as good as any header you're going to buy for less than $300. (The PLM 4-2-1 excluded). If you don't have the whole thing then a cheap piece off of eBay will get you by until you can have a proper one installed. For mostly stock 2.5" exhaust is fine. VRS, KTeller, and TrueBendz all sell mandrel bent pipe kits with hangars and flanges in alumimized steel or SS for ~$250. A Vibrant streetpower black muffler is $105 off Jegs, a spun metallic-element high flow cat from Magnaflow is $90, and for a resonator, a cheap Thrush 2.5" glasspack from Oreilly's has worked very well for me. If you have a welder, or a friend with one, you can assemble it all yourself. Or the stock exhaust can work too, just don't expect anything after Vtec crossover. ^_^

Scott Little

1. Thank you, if you wrap any old crap with that wire wrap it looks professional. I added some heat shrink to the ends as well just for a finished look and will keep it from moving.
2. Yea I looked at the innovative one earlier. It looks like it would cost around $350 then from the looks of it I would need their front motor mount as well which would roughly be another $150. I could always just use some spacers if I wanted to play with adjusting it a bit. This is not an area I need to address now, but maybe some day.
3. I live in SoCal, we rarely have rain and I try not to drive in it. Not a big concern.
4. yea I got them to throw in the Down pipe as well, its the 97+ longer downpipe so its much too long to just bolt on, plus it has that funky flange on the end. I have a 2.25 exhaust now, I also have a resonator where the cat would go currently. There is a spacer between the downpipe and resonator so I'm hoping when I remove that the spacing will be close to correct and all I need is the flange changed. We will see once I mock it up. I may end up doing a cheap 4-2-1 ebay special if things don't line up well, just as a temporary solution.


The muffler shop always seems to like the compression fitting but I like the flex pipe, I may try to have them cut the stock downpipe after the flex so it will bolt cleanly to my exhaust. We will see.


I got the DC header and AEM intake since they were carb legal but I guess at this point it doesn't really matter.

Scott Little

Ok spent a good amount of time today getting the loose ends completed. Crank pulley is on and Alt/PS belts. Plugged in my fancy new harness adapter. Got my intake installed, i was going to put on my old pod filter but its extremely old and never been cleaned replaced, ill order a new one. Installed my Skunk 2 Upper control arms.. crap just remembered i forgot to tighten a few bolts. . Started installing my grounding kit, it doesnt quite line up like it did on the F22b2 but i will figure it out. My assortment of cotter pins came in so i replaced all of the ones on the front end. Axel's installed and the transmission clutch inspection plate. I took a few minutes to cut off the odd adapter on the downpipe and did some comparing. Should be an easy fix, maybe ill head to the muffler shop tomorrow.

Let me say this.... I HATE INSTALLING Torsion bars. Every time it ends up taking me hours just for 2 bolts. I would rather hit myself in the nuts with a mallet than take them out and back in again.

Also... Lava Soap is awesome. Back in the day i used dish soap and then that orange crap. I had been using the orange stuff until recently and i grabbed some lava soap, its like magic.

I had some negative Camber since i installed my skunk 2 Shocks. I have been running the coilovers for years and just replaced the shocks in January. I did the 5 Lug conversion a few years back and i was able to get it dialed in to -1+1 camber but since i changed the shocks i have not had any luck. I purchased the 88-91 Crx Skunk 2 upper control arms. I had planned to use my stock mounts with the Energy suspension bushings but the CRX uppers are not as wide, i tried to pound them in without any luck. With the ones that came with the uppers its a tight fit but they did work, hopefully i am able to get them dialed in.





Fuel System Install, i may build a bracket for the filter.




Driver side Harness wires




Transmission side wires, could use a little cleanup still but most likely ill leave them as is.




throttle cable mount. I was going to drill some new holes in the mount but couldn't find the drill under all of my mess.




Side by side with the DC Downpipe from the F22b2 and the little adapter that was before my cat.The Length wont be a problem




Closer to complete




Skunk 2 Coils/Shocks/Upper control arms. Prelude hub, paint didnt hold up like i had hoped, next time powder coat.




Skunk 2 uppers are slightly thinner.




Side by side with Stock

Scott Little

Went to the Muffler shop and cut a section off my mid pipe and stretched it to fit over the downpipe piping. He also gave me a clamp. This will be enough to get the car running so I can drive it to the muffler shop to get it fixed properly. I will install the downpipe today and get all of the fluids in and ready to fire.


Checklist.
-Attach main grounding point to Transmission.
-Tighten passenger side upper control arm bolts
-Downpipe install
-Run knock sensor wire to ECU.
-Tighten Axel Nut and lug nuts
-Install new under dash ignition harness (mine was hacked by poor alarm install before I got the car)


Here is my question... I don't have a status on my ECU from Pherable. Can I fire the car safely using the ECU from the F22b2? I have run a H22a using a F22A ECU and it ran without any major issues. If I can fire it with the stock ECU I may be able to fire it up today.

Tachi

It might run okay. The lower rpm fuel maps should be close enough that the oxygen sensor can compensate but dear heaven don't go heavy throttle or over 3k.

Scott Little

ok cool, ill fire it up tomorrow.
Fluids are in, everything has been tightened.
One issue.... when I was doing a final check on the Axel nuts one of the wheels turned in and the other did not. I'm worried that my power steering rack took a dump. it needs replacing anyway but... I really don't want to deal with it right now. I jacked it back up and checked everything and didn't see any issue, no wobble with the wheels.


I do not recommend using the JDM Downpipe, when swapping into a 94-97 Accord. The length is the first problem, then the flange then there is a mount that hits the rear crossmember, then.... the O2 sensor hits the crossmember. I saw a 4-2-1 ceramic coated header for pretty cheap on amazon, I think ill go with that in a few weeks and get things welded up properly once I have it.


Any ideas where I can mount my aftermarket temp sensor? On the F22b2 I had it in place of the stock sensor, but I would love to find another spot for it.

Tachi

Coolant temp? The water outlet/inlet on the front of the engine, the upper radiator hose. There should be a cylindrical depression in the left (facing the engine bay) side. I drilled it out just enough to allow a 1/4 NPT tap to bite in, and then sealed in a 1/4npt-1/8npt bushing in there. Works without any leaks, though I never finished wiring-up that gauge...

[EDIT] I just checked the photo of your engine and I'm surprised, a sensor is already occupying that spot. Funny, on my H23AV sitting on the stand, that little elbow appears still unoccupied (going off a photo taken of it, do not remember exactly).

Anyplace on the T-stat housing you can drill and tap?

Scott Little

Yes coolant temp. I have been trying to get my stock gauge working for years without any luck. I replaced the sensor, replaced the gauge checked all of the fuses and wiring and didn't have any luck, it was very intermittent when I got the car. It may be the cluster itself, I have a spare and may play with swapping the board.




Yea I swapped the one from the F22b2 since it was wired for that sensor. I had the same idea early on that I would use that spot but I thought the stock sensor was more important.
I don't really want to drill my t-stat housing. I purchased a little T adapter to try(with the f22b2) and with that installed the temperature was reading like 15 degrees lower. So I had abandoned that idea. I was hoping there was a magic location somewhere I could use.

Tachi

You could just use the elbow that came with the h23 and drill and tap two 1/4 npt holes. Goop them up with sealant and you should be good to go after it dries.

Scott Little

Well... I have fuel but no spark.
I didn't throw any codes either.
I pulled the plugs and they all have fuel. I tried to fire it with one plug out and there was no spark. I pulled off the dist cap and cleaned all of the terminals, I added that additional wire for the cluster while I was at it. I did it a little lazy without matching wire color and not tucked into the harness but ohh well, I can clean it up later if it bugs me.


I don't really see what could be wrong. When I did the conversion to from obd1 to obd2 there is only one wire that's needed to be changed to get the car to start. That was a simple swap.


I checked the wires and they all look good. I will go ahead and replace the under dash harness and try it again. My wife was having issues with the car starting so I was going to replace it anyway.


I guess after that doesn't fix the issue I will have to pull out the multimeter and see if I can find some good notes on what to check.

Scott Little

Still no spark. I wish the F22b2 didn't have that silly tek distributor. I would just swap it over. I wonder if the ignitor or coil are bad. what a pain

Tachi

It's unusual for the distributor to go bad. The engine is getting fuel, but no spark. I'm sure fuel is dependent on crank angle signal just as much as the igniter for the coil is, but usually when you're not getting spark the ECU can't tell what position the crankshaft is in. You're sure the distributor is wired in correctly? [I'm reticent to even ask that as nice as your harness work looks]

Scott Little

Good news. I had a distributor from a D-Series I think laying around and I swapped the Ignitor and Coil over. First turn of the key and she started and died. I tried it a few times and gave it a little gas and she started idling perfectly. Honestly first time I have done any Honda work and not had a surging idle. You can barely change a tail light without that happening. haha.


So it was one of those 2 things. I did throw a Cel Code 4 when she was failing to start before I did the ignitor/coil swap. I am also getting a cel code 7 so I may need to investigate.


If the code 4 does not go away ill just swap the sensors from the other distributor. We will see about the code 7 as well, you cant expect to fire an engine for the first time in who knows how many years and expect no errors. No big deal I will get them sorted. The temp gauge it pegged which was odd, I may just pull that sensor and use my after market one anyway. The throttle was very tight, another thing that may break in or may need to be adjusted, I was trying to move the car back and forward a bit and couldn't really find the clutch engagement point. But since I'm in the garage and using the wrong ecu I didn't really want to push it. I think ill bolt up under the dash area and maybe reset the ECU tomorrow to see if the codes go away. Other than that ill just wait for the Chipped ECU to come in, I'm guessing I wont see it until the end of next week.

Scott Little

I got impatient last night and started working on the car again. I swapped the temperature sensor with the after market one and tested the distributor again and I was still throwing the 4. I went ahead and moved the internals of the extra distributor I had into the correct housing, and... converted it to with as obd2 since the harness is wired that way now. lol.
Ill install it and see what happens. The engine was running a little rougher as well, I will have to check my TPS wiring. and see why its throwing a code.

Scott Little

Well that didn't work. I couldn't get it to fire with the other internals. Maybe I did it wrong. I think I should have just swapped the sensors. I put it back with the same issue. I also tried out both the ignitor and coil that came with the engine and neither seemed to work. I may test out the coil again if I end up pulling the dist. The coil actually threw a cel which makes me think its a turd. What are the odds that the sensor, coil and ignitor were all bad. Pretty slim unless someone just put a bunch of bad parts in the engine before scrapping it.

Scott Little

Doing some reading there it does say you will get that code if the crank position doesn't match up with what the ECU thinks it should be. Ill just wait for the new ecu and see what happens from there.


I am frustrated reading these swap threads. "I have cel code xx and xx and xx and the car wont rev to 15 million rpm" why the hell would you be revving the hell out of your engine when you are throwing codes. haha. soo many idiots.


You just know now that I said this ill come back next week saying I'm still throwing a code 4 but vtec works great. haha

Tachi

Could it be the difference between the cam angle and crank angle? do the F22's use crank angle too, or are they cam angle?

And I've been there before with my old RX7. I drove my Accord for a couple months with the wiring just messed-up enough that the ECU would not kick back down to the non-vtec fuel map, and idled horribly.

Scott Little

I was looking online for a cheap header and I'm not finding anything that looks interesting. The Y design ones look cool but are expensive and I'm afraid that I will have issues with the fitment, the gap for the header and the front cross member is very slim. I cant install a 4-2-1 header without separating it first, I'm not sure a 4-1 or Y design will fit. I was looking for a ceramic coated 4-2-1 but they all have the stock O2 sensor position which is a problem with the rear cross member. I need to have the bung at an angle so I don't end up eating o2 sensors.


I'm concerned that I will have issues clearing the oil pan since there are posts saying that the H23 pan sits lower.


I'm at a loss at the moment, if I go and have the stock modified, I would want the bung relocated and I need everything welded up I'm sure the cost will be $60+. and it wont be an ideal header/downpipe.

Scott Little

I did some more digging and what it looks like is that most of the 4-2-1 headers have the o2 sensor bung before the flex pipe and on the JDM one its after the flex. I wonder why that is. Its hard to tell but that may "may" move it forward enough to clear the cross member. Anyone have any experience with it?


I also did some additional reading on the Tri Y designs and it looks like you need to modify the front cross member and the front motor mount, possibly remove the front motor mount. This is definitely not going to work for me.


Back to the 4-2-1, almost all of them have a 2inch collector, I did a quick measure on the JDM one and the inner pipe diameter looks to be 2 inch. I'm not sure there will be any performance gains at all with the aftermarket headers. I can see the 4-1 and the Tri Y gaining some HP but not with the 4-2-1.


I'm thinking ill order a 4-2-1 mainly for the o2 relocation and because they look nicer, can anyone confirm the location fits for a 94-97 Accord. They all pretty much look to be identical. I'm thinking ill get a kit with the test pipe so I can steal the flange

Tachi

The cheap headers are not going to get you much of anythig in terms of power. Custom, or the plm copies are your best bet as far as headers go.

jamescallowa

Very interesting post. I am intrigued. I might do the same for my 96 Accord.

Scott Little

I see the word custom thrown around a lot, I'm just not seeing it as being a valid solution. I honesty think a production dyno proven header would be the way to go if I was looking for power. It seems like the tri y design would be the favorite with the ram horn somewhere up there as well. There are a few other 4-1 setups out there with a decent size collector, I guess you would go custom when you want to focus on making power in a certain power band but most likely you would end up with performance similar to one of the production pieces.


My concern at this time is fitment then looks secondary and not soo much performance. I don't want to lose any performance. Most of the 4-2-1 headers seem to be pretty much on par with the stocker. the pipe size may be a little bigger from the individual ports but the collector is still only 2 inches. I think the bottle neck is the cat usually.


I did see some decent deals out there but I have serious concerns about fitment. The 4-2-1 headers are the ones I feel are least likely to give me issues. I was hung up on the ceramic coating but after a bunch of reading it makes very little difference in sound, it mainly affects heat.


Good news my ECU is shipping and should be here in 3-4 days, I cant wait to get it plugged in. Then I can troubleshoot the error code 4 and 7.

Tachi

Custom headers aren't realistic for alot of people, they're not for me. I'm not spending $1000 on a header, it's just not happening. The PLM headers on eBay have a good reputation here as far as power production and fitment go. They might need some customizing as far as the flange goes, but they're meant for the Prelude/Accord, and the collectors are 2.5". The Ram-horn header looks amazing and I would love to have it, if I honestly thought it would gain me anything. There is very little information out about it and what there is indicates it interferes with the AC line. From what I understand about header design it would probably work better with a H22 or F20B than a H23. My issue with is is that half of it would need to be replaced in my case as it's a 2.5" pipe and I would want 3". Anything that would get an exotic piece of steel like that would need the flow.